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Answered R2

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Rich Lienesch, Mar 15, 2017.

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  1. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Check out the single review it has so far.
     
  2. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    Its a matter of opinion what people are willing to pay for looks. With the C2 the marketing on it was great it lead people ( like me) to believe that not only was this as you call a "jewel" but also a printer that out performs other printers within the same price range.which from what i can see it doesnt as much as it was advertised but it still is a good printer when it works. I agree with you on the $1,500 price point it should include great customer service as so the C2 should have had great customer service which it doesnt. For me Robo is trying to attract more of the standard consumers instead of the "business consumers" or however you want to put it. But i think we all have pretty much agreed Robo has failed in either market. Since my C2 has been working great i actualy enjoy it now. The R2 i hope it performs great as well but Robo customer service will have to increase for that price to be justified. Just as in the Ultimaker and BCN3D from what i have read on forums and seen reviews of ( i dont own either just from what i have seen) the price justifies the quality and customer service they recieve.
     
  3. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    Robo failed on the C2 and how it looks will probbably fail on the R2 but we will have to wait and see.
     
  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I own both. The machines are well supported via tech support, distributors I bought them through as well as an active community.

    as @WheresWaldo indicated, for me and my end use, the machine can look like a pile of garbage as long as it prints correctly and reliably. If it looks nice thats great, but I dont need "features" I need function.

    full disclosure: I did not buy either the C2 or the R2 as I do not feel their function will be or is as high as their "fit" :D I have many machines and those just did not add "value" to my operation.
     
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  5. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Similarly, I did not buy either one because the $400 I've invested in a knockoff chinese i3 (Monoprice Maker Select + Pi3/Octopi setup with webcam) fills all of my 3d-printing related "needs".

    If the R2 comes out and people are sharing radically better-looking success stories I'll say as much, but on-paper I'm just not seeing anything that is worth the price tags on these printers.

    This isn't even a "tool vs. jewel" complaint, because the teardowns that have been posted on the C2 make it pretty obvious that if the external cosmetic bits of the C2 are that expensive that Robo is getting ripped off on the cost of manufacturing side of things.

    Also my $350 printer is a sexy powder-coated steel-framed machine.
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I agree that they must not have gotten a sweetheart deal on that side of things, but it is a more complex drive-train for all of the axis too.
    While not rocket-science it does add cost to the build of the unit. It will also likely add maintenance as well since there are more parts involved and thus more failure points.

    (all that said I LIKE the new axis drive a lot better, it is more solid)
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The Mendel design on the R1s is not inherently inferior to a gantry style printer like the C2/R2. It just happens that you have to be smart when you deviate from the OS versions, Look at the Prusa i3 and some of it's clones, print quality that can rival many printers costing multiple times more. With a judicious replacement of parts the R1 design can work just as well. The biggest issue I have with all the Robo printers is mostly in marketing them as an appliance and not a machine that it more closely resembles. The C2 so far is suffering from the same fate.

    Robo is not HP or Epson or Brother so marketing their 3D printer as if they were those companies causes support costs to go up and so far most of that slack is being taken up by the community. Problem with that is, Robo does not have any track record of giving back to the community unless it serves a PR purpose, not much if any goes back to the Open Source community. I think they do have some innovative people in their inner circle, the theory behind using the nozzle as a probe was really thinking out of the box, implementation is lacking, but the concept was almost inspired. Where they want to take RoboOS (from the little cohesive bits that just happened to fall together) will be a boon to first time buyers that fall for the 3D printer as appliance hype. Whether any of the "innovations" they have included will keep people using their Robo printers or continue to buy new printers is another story. The people here who have had the most success running their Robo printers are the people who are not running stock printers anymore. With the exception of @mark tomlinson I pretty much think anyone still using their Robo more than 6 months has upgraded some portion of the printer or another (I single out mark because I believe he still has a Robo Beta unit in pretty much original condition). Other than the outer plastic shell my R1 is about 70% original, maybe only 50%. Those successful people are not who is being marketed too, and as evidenced by the number of times even the simplest questions are answered again and again, the printer still isn't there yet. As much as I hope that the C2 and R2 are successful, and I have no dog in this fight, there needs to be a come to Jesus meeting with their internal groups and figure out a way to build on their strengths, strengthen their weaknesses and build their internal support structures, before trying to expand into becoming a mass market appliance. So many companies fall for the inflated estimates of Gartner and others, Robo too wants a piece of that inflated pie. As much as an Ultimaker costs, their investment in the backend of their business shows and they might actually get to that 3D printer as an appliance quicker than Robo, but it won't be as pretty. ;)
     
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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    A bit worse actually... they are not gentle in delivery and that gantry style is easier to discombobulate.

    edit: and let me add that apparently their support has not yet caught up with the C2 so YMMV when you call in for aid. Given that much of this machine is custom they REALLY need to have spare bits handy. Frankly expecting the novice to even work on it is a bit much as disassembly is not for the faint of heart either.

    However, of the comparison between this and our other printers we have used, I like this gantry style drive better. It is tighter and more precise, which given the unit in question (C2) that is a good thing. The print quality without even trying to tune it is better at higher resolution than our detail R1. If I moved over the smaller nozzle it totally wins in that regard. I am not sure that is something everyone needs though, that level of detail is not really something even we normally need.
     
    #48 mark tomlinson, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sure, poke fun at me :)

    Yes, one is pretty much a stock beta with the old 5/16 rods and the partly wooden base. It still works so I haven't been motivated to do much to it.

    Other one has the replacement bed and leadscrew upgrade so it is effectively an R1+
     
    #49 mark tomlinson, Mar 20, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  10. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    I've never liked the fact that they market the R2 as able to "Print with two colors", but only has one extruder. If it ships with one extruder, then printing with two colors is not a selling point. I can add a 2nd extruder to most 3D printers on the market, hell, I can add on to the C2 and it isn't marketed as able to print in two colors.

    My guess (*hope*) is that the R2 will come pre-wired for the 2nd extruder and all I will have to do is add the physical exturder, but I have such a bad taste in my mouth about this thing, I'll probably just sell it after it ships in its unopened box.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is *almost* the way the C2 comes so I agree with your expectation here. The C2 is missing a few interconnect wires and other than that you add the extruder. Then again they never expected that unit to be dual-extruder :)
     
  12. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Why not just cancel the order/dispute the charge on your credit card if they refuse to cancel the order?
     
  13. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    I agree dont advertise a product with dual extruders but only sell it with one. Even all the pictures of it show it with dual extruders. Your really paying 600$ more for a bigger bed, heated bed, and the camera. Fork up just $200 more and get another C2 and you can add extra extruder to it and have 2 printers or for the same price get the r1+ With roughly the same size bed. If they do end up selling it separately depending on the price someone else should just sell an extra extruder kit for it and probably could make it cheaper then what they would sell it for. Just like the glass bed for the C2 i honestly think someone should sell that as an upgrade for it it makes all the difference
     
  14. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    I dont think its that simple from my experience it can take along time at least for creditcards to get a charge that you did authorize and are trying to get a refund.
     
  15. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the company, but if you have written correspondence where someone refuses to cancel an order after you've requested them to do so, the credit card company then will usually cancel/refund the charge.

    Especially if you have not received the product and your reason for canceling is because the company is changing the terms of the purchase agreement the way Robo is.
     
  16. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    Didnt think about it that way. Thats probably what i would do. I bet if they dont deliever by the end on March they probably will have alot of people trying to cancel.
     
  17. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    Is there a new update on the R2? i see they changed the date on their website if you preorder, it now says shipping in April.
     
  18. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    There really shouldn't be any surprises about R2 ship dates changing.

    I mean, it wouldn't be the first time.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Even the beta slipped.
    That is rather par-for-the-course in terms of KickStarter campaigns. I think maybe one of over a hundred I was in shipped on-time.
    Most folks over estimate how quickly they can deliver and under estimate the problems they will have :)

    Still, they should be pushing out communications to their backers on a regular basis. Makes it easier to understand and tolerate delays.
    I am in no way involved,. but I would hope that they are using the delays to improve the product based on issues with the C2 and any testing they have done.
     
  20. colton81

    colton81 Active Member

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    Wow i think i like the looks of that one better .
     
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