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Solved PLA delamination/layers not binding(infill and bottom layers)

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Electonic, May 17, 2016.

  1. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Hey, I have recently gotten a Robo 3D R1, I had a few problems with the plastic sticking to the bed, but I fixed those with hairspray. I also had a thermistor wire come loose, I contacted support, and got a new one. It works great. Anyway, here are the answers to the "post information" sticky.
    Filament type: 1.75 mm white PLA from sainsmart
    Extruding Temp: (I started at 190c and went up to 230c to see if the higher temperatures would help bond)
    Bed Temp: 65c
    Bed makeup Plain glass bed with aquanet hairspray, cleaned off after/before every attempt.

    I'll post a picture below of my problem. Anyway, I have a print going right now. I changed the layer height to .1, as well as the overall speeds to be slower. I also upped the infill to 30%. My extrusion/ filament flow is at 90. I'm using CURA on a windows 7 laptop.
    Any help is appreciated,
    Eric
     

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  2. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    A similar thing happened with me using Meltink PLA. I looked under the bed and saw that the cork sagged to the point that the cork would rub against the two bolts. I am able to "massage it flat and added some HVAC tape to tighten and hold the cork taute so that it laid flat. That temporarily allowed me to print without separation or delineation. Atleast with me it is caused by the rubbing of the bolt which caused the build plate to jump up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Thanks for replying, although I think moving the infill to 30% helped a ton(the default was 10%). I have a test print going right now, and will post pictures later. I will check out the cork after the test print, which if the test print starts to fail, I'll stop it early. As I am running this test print slowly, It will be done in about 2-3 hours.
    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  4. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    My test print is going right now, I seen to have a gap in the sides of my layers.
     
  5. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Also, the bottom Left infill looks weird compared to the rest of the infill. There is also a gap in the outer shell? You can't see it to well in that picture, but there looks to be a small gap in the outer shell layers.
     

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  6. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Right, My latest failure. and bump.
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Looks like (wild guess) you might be using a raft.
    Why?
    If you get the first layer adjusted correctly you don't need that (not with hairspray) with normal filaments.

    If you DO need it that means there is still a first layer issue and that can easily lead to a disaster later :)

    One step at a time and we can get it sorted,
     
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  8. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    I had a raft because at one point it was not sticking to the bed, and I never really changed back. That was before I switched to the hairspray, so I will not use a raft with the next one.

    I have a print going right now(still with raft), I changed the extrusion multiplier to 105, as well as the layer height to .2 and it's beautiful. Except for the outer shell, which I had set to 0, thinking that would default it to the same size as a regular layer, but now I have no shell. I'll have pictures in an hour when it's done.
    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I always go at least 1mm for top, bottom, and walls.

    Sent from my Xtreme Play Tab v2 using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Right, here is a picture of the sides. I am printing a 20mm cube with same settings minus raft right now, to make sure it was not the model that was messed up. Tried to get the raft off this print and ripped it apart, so no more raft. This is supposed to be a webcam mount for the Robo 3D bed. After this 20mm cube, I will be printing another with a 1.2mm shell.
     
  11. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Are you getting these pictures?
     

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  12. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    I printed a 20mm cube with the shell at 1.2. Looks great, a few little things to fix, but that is just little stuff. Extruder temp(I'm still printing at 200c for PLA, corners on cubes raising a little), some trivial stuff.
    So, it's fixed! Just for future references, When I got the machine the microswitches came totally off the Z axis, but only on one side. So, I went and loosened the screw, slid the switch down and leveled Z axis with the lead screws. I don't really know why that helped when I reverted it back to normal, but it did.

    Thanks everybody!!
    Eric
     
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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The Z switches can get dislodged in shipping and you did exactly the right hing to fix them.
    Glad you have it all sorted.
     
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  14. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    Okay, so apparently the problem wasn't resolved. It prints fine with smaller things, but with larger objects, like the disk first pictured, the problem remains. I think it is a cooling issue, or something related. I am printing in a colder room. About 60 degrees Fahrenheit... Maybe the bigger objects cool too fast?

    I noticed that the infill doesn't bond well with the bottom layers, creating a little leeway in the next layer, and eventually cresting a space between layers.it looks like the layers between about 1mm-3mms are the culprit.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Are you using matter control? I also print in a colder room (65). I print pla at 192-200 but thats not real helpful as everyones temps vary drastically. What kind of filament (brand and type)
     
  16. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    I'm using the latest version of Cura. MatterControl wouldn't extrude the filament(may have been a bed leveling issue), and I had used Cura with my other 3D printer. However, I do have MatterControl installed on my laptop, and I can always try that again.

    The filament is black PLA 1.75mm from Sainsmart. finny thing is, it worked fine when printing a 20mm cube, but when printing bigger objects, it seems that some of the layers do not want to stick together. Would increasing the infill% help bond the shell(s) to the infill?
    I'll try out mostly everything.
    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Whats your infill overlap? I use s3d so im not familiar with cura anymore. More infill shouldnt be an issue. 15% or less is what i use for pretty stuff. It could just be a bum spool. Ive had one ao far. Have you tried another spool?
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you think it is cooling related just disable the fan entirely in the slicer. PLA normally comes on after 2 layers, but you can switch that.
     
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  19. Electonic

    Electonic Member

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    My infill overlap is set to 30%. I saw that setting and hoped that it would help bond the shell layers. Is 30% too much? And yes, I have used different spools. I have two others, a red 1.75mm sainsmart and also a white 1.75 mm sainsmart. I will be getting some silver/grey hatchbox PLA in the mail this next week. My other 3D printer, A OneUp 3D printer kit, used those filaments and did have some minor problems, but nothing like whats going on here.

    I'm trying a larger print right now with the fan completely off. I will post pictures later. I am also thinking to increase the infill?? Maybe if the infill bonds better then the shell would have an easier time trying to do so.

    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I went back tot this picture. Does it accurately represent your current failure mode?
     

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