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Solved Sudden problem with extruder and printing

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Mark J., Jan 15, 2017.

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  1. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    hello all,
    Have had my printer for just over a year and only recently really began using it consistently and last night during a long print my extruder stopped spinning. I was able to crank it by hand and it flowed out nice and smooth. After some investigation on the forums, I reset the ramps card after checking the motor on other axis lines (it worked) and then the extruder motor went back to working. Tonight after 8 hours of printing I had a new problem. The extruder started clicking as if it was moving back and forth quickly and apparently wasn't extruding BUT when it would continue into another section of the print it would extruder just fine. I tried searching and I couldn't find anything like this particular problem. I have no mods on the system and its the R1+. Using hatch box pla at 200 degrees, just printed a project using a different roll with no problem (same material and maker). Do any of you seasoned veterans have any idea what can cause this?

    I've attached a picture, the left side printed fine and around the middle you see it go stringy and then the left area is missing for those layers. Any help would be appreciated folks as I love that I finally am able to use this printer , just running into a few major hiccups.

    -Mark
     

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  2. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    You might have a stepper driver that is flaky or just at the point where it is under current. So when the extruder stepper gets hot from a long session of usage it might require more amperage to drive the motor. Take a look at this video to check the stepper driver setup.
     
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  3. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    Thanks for the response, I watched the video and it was a lot of talk that I don't grasp 100%. I know that motors and other things wear down, hell In the year I've had the printer most of my long prints have been failures. Usually due to shifting or pieces coming loose but all those hours of use are still there on that motor. Would I be better off just replacing the driver and the stepper motor? The weird thing about this to me is that it printed half of the layer and not in the other half. I would think it would do it the whole layer but I am such a novice at this from a hardware standpoint .




     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would replace the driver first then the stepper (driver chip/board is cheaper).
    If the motor is not running hot I would even try to tweak the current from the stepper driver first, but you may just want to swap it.
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    But swapping still requires that you adjust it, as you never know how it is set.

    @Mark J. You are describing more than one issue, so we need to separate unrelated or marginally related issues so they can be addressed.
    • One side printing while other half doesn't seem to on layer one
      • Try doing a paper manual level. It may be that the X axis is just tilted and auto-level doesn't address it adequately.
    • Layers shifting
      • Possible fan under printer not running, resulting in overheating of RAMPS and/or Arduino and skipping steps.
      • Possibly catching under bed causing the bed to jump
     
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  6. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    I will no doubt just do this, are there specific driver boards I need to use for the robo? I saw another thread that had a link but it mentioned having to make all kinds of changes. Anything that is plug and play of sorts for an electronics noob like myself?
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Do not forget to glue the heat sinks onto those little stepper driver cards before you use it.
    Sometimes they are attached and other times they let you do the work.
     
  9. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    I hadn't had any issues with leveling, if it were a leveling problem I could figure that out, but if the extruded motor sits there and moves back and forth clicking rapidly, I do wonder if the card got hot, but still don't get why it would be in the exact same spot in the print after 8 hours. Yet as the print continues it would act normal until it entered that one zone. I wish I had shot a video of it in action to post.
     
  10. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    This would be the best for me! I need to find a tutorial on how to do this swap and how to adjust it to start off.
     
  11. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    okay guys. New development. I got new stepper drivers and I swapped the first one into the extruder slot and when i put everything back together even after checking the voltage, the extruder motor just did its rapid clicking. I was doing this with the extruder about halfway up on the Z and half way over on the X axis. I messed with the voltages and nothing changed, so I shut it all down and pulled the new one and put one of the other new ones in. I preheated and hit extrude, after testing its turning by hand, and it worked, i tried 1, 10, and 100 and they all worked. I did this while the printer was still on its side and the head was sitting against the X axis switch. Put every thing back together to finally get back to printing but alas i need to refeed my pla as it broke during all of this. Preheat, move into the middle of the build plate and for the hell of it, I test the extruder and all it does is click..... On a hunch I moved the head back over against its home position and tried. It worked. So I moved the head with the controls across the X axis while trying to extrude at each location. I made it to 30mm before it did its clicking, tried at each 10 after that to the same result. I went back to home position and advanced a little slower using the 1 mm option. I got to 40mm before it did it, then i back it up with the controls a few mm and tried again going forward and i went a little further this time before it did it. I am going to assume this is not longer a stepper problem right? I checked the plugs at both ends and they are in all the way. Actually, I just released the X axis and hit 100mm extrude and manually moved it across the x axis, when it started clicking i moved the loom and when i hold the loom up a bit it actually turns.... as long as i hold the cord in that position. I do not know how this happened. I need a new cord right? Where do i get one for the robo? Thanks ya'll.
     
  12. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    Sure sounds like a wire is broken or nearly broken.
    If you are under warranty call Robo and they will make it good.
    If not, call them and order a new one. I've had great luck with replacement parts personally.
     
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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Or if you are up to it you can unwind the wrap from the loom and replace the affected wire (and then re-wrap the entire loom).
     
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  14. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    @mark tomlinson
    Well, I got new cords in, after checking my loom, the stepper cord had pretty good dents in it, as did my cooling fan for the print. The zip tie holding the wad to the head looked to be the culprit.
    So I did the following

    Hooked up new cord - extruder
    Motor vibrated quickly but did not turn.

    Swapped motor to X axis and again the stepper worked fine

    Swapped new driver into X slot on ramps and it worked fine, the X axis board did nothing in the extruder slot on the ramps

    I did discover I had to re pin the cord, the connections were not matching compared to the one I removed.

    Repinned other cord and moved it around while trying to extrude and again, clicking and rapid movements back and forth.

    Tried turning voltage up and got to .7v before stopping that test.

    I am able to turn wheels by hand, and when extruding and clicking the wheel
    Doesn't move by hand.

    All of this is being done with extruder
    At 200 degrees.

    Program is not reporting any hardware issues until after I shut off the switch on the back, and even then it is m999.

    I'm at my wits end here. I was on the fence about getting a second r1+ so I have two running and now I'm not so
    Sure.....

    Here is a video of it
    In action, re-pinned cord is the one hanging down and going under the printer for now.

     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    So (maybe I missed it--insufficient coffee) you did put a new stepper driver on the extruder correct?
    And as far as the voltage on the stepper driver is concerned I would ignore it and just see if you can get the stepper to work regardless of the voltage. You won't burn out the driver with too much current, at worst your stepper runs hot.

    It is remotely possible that the fault is in the RAMPS board itself. If you bought the full spares kit I linked to above you have a spare RAMPS so swap that in and see if it matters. You do not need to reload firmware unless you swap the arduino.
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    All of the steppers on my Delta run hot and I have added heat sinks to the steppers and a fan for the enclosure.
     
  17. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    Yes I did put a new driver in, I even put in a second new one to see if the first was bad. I had only
    Ordered the drivers you linked as everything else seemed so intimidating, but in the last week in messing with this thing I've learned a lot and wish I had ordered The whole kit. I found another thread were someone had a similar problem and they said once they replaced the ramps everything was good. So I ordered a 1.4 board from Amazon that is board only. I have plenty of drivers , ended up with many extras, and I already studying how to install the generic ramps boards. I will be finding out Thursday night if it will solve the issue once and for all.
     
  18. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    Deltas are the round ones where the plate is stationary right? I was looking at one of those kits for my second printer ...
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Exactly. They are a seriously complicated way to do printing :) and fun as heck to watch do their magic
    It was, however, a major learning experience to build one from a kit and when they have problems most of my experience with cartesian printers like the Robo or even my DLP unit was useless ... I do have it working now and if you have the patience it is a sweet printer type to mess with. OUrs has just under 36 inches of build height with a 12 inch circle.
     
  20. Mark J.

    Mark J. New Member

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    That is a huge build area. That's why I was looking at a kit, it only goes up to 14 but I could put a 12 inch plate on it as well and that would help. I make a lot
    Of cosplay props and that would help a lot with certain pieces. Kit is twice as much as a refurbished R1 though. Tough decision to make.
     
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