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Answered R1 Plus Print head question

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by JWW, Feb 19, 2017.

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  1. JWW

    JWW Member

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    I'm one of the lucky ones it seems. I'm totally happy with the way my R1+ prints. I've had it a little over a year now and know problems other than 'typical' new user issues related to 3D printing. I have a strong CAD background so that never was an issue. I did make sure everything was lined up and put together correctly before I even printed with it.

    Question, I had a filament jamb a few times in that past and had another a few days ago. I 'might' have damaged the print head long ago when I first disassembled it, dunno, but its been working find. When I went to print a mold the other day I noticed the filament was broke about 4 inches above the print head. I was surprised how brittle the filament was too. Maybe because its been exposed to the atmosphere to long, dunno.

    If you look at the image below I was wondering if there's supposed to be a gap at #1? Also, it looks like the melted filament is leaking around the nozzle #2 but I cleaned it up in the first picture below. It printed fine like this but I'm sure it's not supposed to be that way?

    It maybe time for a new head but I really need to get a project printed ASAP and want to use it as is if possible.

    Regards,
    -JW:

    2017-02-19_15-47-05.jpg 2017-02-19_14-44-46.jpg
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, there must be a gap at #1
    No, there does not have to be a gap at #2 (but there can be and that may be OK)

    Inside that metal block (the heater block) the ends of those two parts sticking out that you have numbered should be butted together. They are not which is why it is leaking. The threads do not stop the hot plastic from leaking, the seal between the heat break and the nozzle shaft does.

    The gap on #1 (the heat break is what that is called) looks correct, but your nozzle (#2) needs to be tightened in until it butts up to the heat break. If it does not and instead goes up flush to the heater block then you need to adjust the heat break into the heater block a thread or two more and try again.
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This is not the same hotend, but the diagram is correct. It may help get the idea across:

    HotendHeatbreak.jpg
     
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Brittle filament (PLA or ABS) is due to water. As in water it absorbed from the air :) As they age they do this.
    It is annoying and can sometimes cause very fine visual issues, but will not normally affect the structural qualities of the model.

    There are ways to dry it out, but other than storing it in a container with desiccant I can not really recommend any of those methods.
     
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  5. JWW

    JWW Member

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    Thanks.

    I didn't want to snap the nozzle off so ...

    1. Does the heater block need to be heated up to a certain temp before you try and screw the brass nozzle in until it bottoms out?

    2. I tried heating it up by "plugging" the connectors back together but get the following error message when I set the temperature (to 220 degrees).

    2017-02-19_19-59-51.jpg
     
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    max temperature is showing the thermistor (iddy biddy wires) is shorted. You may want to make sure it didn't break, they are very small wires. I seat my nozzles at 240 or more (depends on what your set ups max temp is)
     
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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I think the default MAXTEMP in the firmware is in the neighborhood of 245-250c so it is a thermistor problem as @Geof pointed out.
     
  8. JWW

    JWW Member

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    Thanks I'll check the wires ... BTW, I get that error message when I fire up MatterControl even with my printer turned off.

    Does the heater block need to be heated up to a certain temp before you try and screw the brass nozzle in?
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is because if you have the power switch off and the USB cable plugged IN then the Arduino is still ON. It will still see the problem with the thermistor.

    Not to screw it in, but once it is in you want to heat the extruder up to above 220 or so and make sure the nozzle is snug. Otherwise it will work its way loose. Do not over torque it, but make sure it is still snug.
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As confusing as it is, the Arduino can be powered either from the power supply or from the 5v on the USB cable.
    The newer C2 (and likely R2) units do not have that "feature"
     
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  11. JWW

    JWW Member

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    Thanks for the quick response. I wanted to try and get this fixed today. I put crescent wrench on the cooling fins and a smaller one of the brass nozzle. The nozzle doesn't want to budge.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Good enough. Assuming it and the heat break are now touching inside the heater block then your leaking is sorted :)
     
  13. JWW

    JWW Member

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    1. The nozzle is in the same position as my first photograph, so it hasn't moved. That being the case, IF I could get the head to heat up I would assume it will still leak since nothing has changed.

    2. I inspected the wire connections with a 8x loupe and didn't see any breaks. I'm more than willing to remove the set screws but can't figure out what size they are, whether they be standard or metric. Anyone know what size allen wrench the take, none that I have seem to work?

    3. If I find the correct allen wrench, what is the white paste looking stuff around the wires that go into the heating block.
     
  14. JWW

    JWW Member

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    View attachment 13201 View attachment 13202 I got 'everything' disassembled tonight. I had to heat it up to remove everything. The allen head were also filled with melted filament and the reason I wasn't able to inset the allen wrench. The same for the nozzle. I did a continuity test on the one I'm holding, the smaller one, a thermistors I assume, which failed. Is there an exact replacement? Does a replacement come with the brass tube shown in the picture and the white packing (insulator I assume)? Where do you buy a exact replacement?

    What is the larger one called?

    Thanks ...

    View attachment 13201
     

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    #14 JWW, Feb 20, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The larger one is the heater cartridge and the smaller one is the newer style thermistor.
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Exact replacements probably have to come from Robo.
    I have been unable to find a source for just those cartridge style thermistors the Hexagon uses.
    I can find ones for E3D and others, but those are different sizes (physically).

    One of the benefits of the E3D is the wide availability of spare bits. Not suggesting you replace it, but just pointing that out.

    Call Robo and get a spare theremistor
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The thermistor should be 3 mm O.D. and while you can source them from China I am pretty sure Amazon does not have any yet.
    AliExpress Link (<< This is not an endorsement)
     
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  18. JWW

    JWW Member

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    Thanks for the help and suggestions. Stupid me, I forgot to take pics to verify which connector was for the theremistor and which was for the heater core? Anyone know for a fact? 2017-02-21_10-41-36.jpg
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You have to trace them back because I am not sure they were consistent with wire colors.
    If one is a heavier gauge than the other that one is likely the heater core.
    Read resistance and the heater core will be <20ohms while the thermistor will be 100k or ballpark
     
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