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Shrinkage in part printing!

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by bdk127, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. bdk127

    bdk127 New Member

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    Bening new to 3D I am stumped on why this happened. It was a 19 hour print that completed overlight but with issues. About 1.5 inches off the build plate it looks like there was some massive shrinkage. not sure why, and hope I can get some suggestions and help here. Build plate was 70C and hot end was 190C. infill is 100%, flow is 100%. Not sure what other settings would be helpful here.... .
     

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  2. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Material?
     
  3. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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  4. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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  5. bdk127

    bdk127 New Member

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    The material is PLA... Reviewing the links provided.
     
  6. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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    bdk - FWIW, here's a one-piece Arduino electronics project box I designed and printed last week on the R2.

    7"W x 7"L x 2"H The walls are 3.6mm thick. MakerGeeks silver PLA. 0.2mm layer height.
    225 deg hotend, 50 deg bed. Fans 100 % starting at layer #2.
    Sliced in Simplify 3D. 9 hour print.

    Came out great. The fuzzy areas on the rear wall are the supports for the square and round holes, which knocked out clean.

    Powder Coat box Robo R2.jpg

    Powder Coat box Robo R2 2.jpg
     
    #6 Ed Ferguson, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Shrinkage (or at least severe shrinkage) or warp or curl on PLA is often either really poor choices for temperatures or bad PLA. While not common the latter does happen.
     
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  8. bdk127

    bdk127 New Member

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    wow. Nice! I did not show the full box I was printing, but it is like 6 inches high, and the walls are like maybe 3mm, I am not home to measure. It looks like your Arduino box has heavier walls. Might make a difference. I will try again and see what happens. This is what I was printing....

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1666929
     
    #8 bdk127, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    @bdk127 that appears like a temperature issue. With PLA not holding togather (make SURE its PLA, I've put the wrong spool on by accident before) you are likely printing to cold (or fans are dropping the temp to much). My 2nd thought as I read through the post is 70 seems VERY hot for bed heat for PLA, if its working thats great, but PLA will be quite soft at that temp which causes very bad foundation for the rest of the build, not saying thats your problem and it may be fine for you, but while troubleshooting you may want to try dropping that bed heat down to 50 or 60 deg. From what it sounds your wall thickness on your model is more than thick enough to print well (not sure about end application) so I'd focus in on the troubleshooting :D
     
  10. bdk127

    bdk127 New Member

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    I will try playing with the fan speed for this print.. Maybe that could be the issue here. The default is 100% and I have not played with it yet for any print. Thanks for the reply! I have been running with 60C on the bed and a raft, which is the default with the R2. I bumped it up to 70C and no raft, and hoping that the base would not pull away. It did seem OK for this print, but could have been better. Are you saying I should go the other way (like 50C) when not using a raft?

    Brian
     
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  11. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    On my PEI machine I dont go over 60 with PEI (no raft). If your having adhesion issues its time to clean it :D. (wipe down with Alcohol) PLA doens't like things to hot on the hotend or bed. I'd give it a shot. If you crack and delam like that again I'd look at slowing the printer down or bumping up the heat on the hotend. (and double check it is PLA!) I was troubleshooting one time for a few days then realized it wasn't PLA on the spool :oops: lol
     
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  12. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Nicely done. I had to *slightly* adjust the rectangular port for the RJ-45 external connector due to shrinkage on my chassis project, for what it's worth.
     
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  13. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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    bdk - The walls on my electronics project box pictured in my post above are 3.6mm thick. Pretty sturdy with the reinforcements at the corners, and even more so with the 0.062" thick aluminum plate floor screwed in via brass heat-set inserts. This print maxed out my bed area with just 1mm to spare.

    outsourceguru - Yeah, getting tolerances correct for inserted components is tricky. Sometimes I print small, simple test pieces to test fit the parts before printing the real deal. I hate to file openings :)

    electronics box corner.jpg

    heat set insert.jpg
     
    #13 Ed Ferguson, Jul 3, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
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  14. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    I didn't notice the inserts earlier. Brilliant. That's the stuff I miss doing. (In rotomolding, you run a bolt through the aluminum outer mold and you mate that up with the insert on the inside. Once molded, you just run out the bolt and you're ready to go. In fact, we even had mold-in-place labeling on the inside like these guys on a skid http://cavemanplastics.com/text/images/product1.jpg .)

     
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  15. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Those inserts are beautiful! Will need to look into it since fastening solutions to hold multiple 3D parts together has always been something I've never been very happy with.
     
  16. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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    Kilrah - I buy my heat-set inserts here:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#heat-inserts/=18cbj8h

    I then download their STEP file and bring it into my modeling program. From there I model a stepped plug for making the proper sized holes. Print a simple test piece to dial in your dimensions. I don't use a special solder tip, just my regulated Weller iron for electronics. If you have the option, use a lower temperature setting or tip. The insert sinks in slowly - takes about 3 seconds. I tested a couple to see if I could pull them out by hand - they stayed in place.

    heat set inserts.jpg
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The heat set inserts are all over AliExpress as well as easily available in the EU.

    Ed, I am pretty sure I recall Kilrah is in the EU. McMaster-Carr does not ship outside of North America.
     
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  18. bdk127

    bdk127 New Member

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    So I adjusted the hotend from 190 to 200 and the bed from 70 to 60. The most importatnt thing I did ( at least in my mind) is to adjust the fans down from 100% and a total Z axis and bed adjustment. Printning now and I can see that (so far) the print is much more consistient and even. Only time will tell. Thank you to all who contributed your suggestions!

    More to follow.

    Brian
     
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  19. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    It sounds like you apply heat to the insert by putting the tip of your Weller soldering iron inside... and watch the insert melt into the adjusted cylindrical hole you've just printed. It then eases down into the plastic and you remove the Weller tip to allow it to cool. Interesting.

    Not sure what I'd have invented here for the solution. But I'm thinking I would have printed a hole with some sort of internal features like horizontal ringed ribs and then—applying hot glue to the sides of the insert—drop it down into the hole.

    I do love inserts, though.
     
  20. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I dont think there is a need to invent anything lol. The heat set inserts is the fix if you want a solid connection for the screws. by using the head on the insert you are making the metal insert one piece with the printed part :D
     
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