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Solved Print quality when scaling up model

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by astro boy, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    i have a robo r1+ using simplify 3D with esun pla @ 210
    My problem is this... I have been scaling up a model of a submarine and if you take a look at the pic included, the smaller version prints fine but when I scale it up the extrude is retracting in the one area you can see there's barely any coverage. I'm wondering if anyone has come across this before. I don't think it's a model issue since the smaller version prints ok. Any thoughts? I might add that I've nearly disabled retraction in the software yet it still retracts causing holes. And when I tried printing last night, it was retracting laying down the first later! Any and all help is appreciated. image.jpeg
     
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    send me the files or post them here, what scale ? it could be a model issue and when you scale its large enough that S3D isn't ignoring it anymore.
     
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    wierd stuff happens when you scale up prints :D
     
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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Depends a lot on the model, so yea... good thing to test.
     
  5. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    Hi guys... Yes I'll post the model files tonight when I get home. The model was made in inventor. I converted it in inventor to an stl. I've scaled it up in s3d to 3350% of its original size and since I wanted the model large for display, I had to cut it in mesh mixer for my robo in 7 pieces. I know it's a drastic scale up but as you can see I can print it small fine and have even printed a couple sections large and it's been ok. I got my daughter to print on her machine with cura and it had no problems at that scale.
    I'm thinking something might be happening in s3d because no when it's laying down almost any model even the first layer, the extruder servo is just rocking back and forth even on laying down an out line for most of it. Could the g code be corrupt in some way? I tried reinstalling s3d but it seems to hold onto some of my previous settings instead of starting from scratch.
    Thanks
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You really need to open a support ticket with S3D in parallel.
    There may be a math bug in their scaling logic.
     
  7. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    I will do that today Mark. I started to last night but couldn't finish, I was too tired. This has been keeping me up at nights lol
     
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    (if S3D is messing it up scaling just scale it up in something else like Mesh Mixer or Netfabb, then repair the model (netfabb is my preference so I can repair and scale in the same go) then export and try it again. Watch the print preview in S3D. It should show you what its going to do so you dont waste time/materials.
     
  9. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    I just downloaded nettfab the other day and I must say I'm not quite up to speed on it. I tried to see if there were problems with the model itself and I really couldn't tell what I was doing. Thats when I decided to print the model in a smaller scale. Just makes me think that the model is not the issue. I opened a case with Simplify support as well. In any case, I'm uploading the model file if anyone wants to check it out and see if they can spot anything which might cause an issue. It's very strange that I tried printing an altogether different model last night and the extruder servo gets to a part of the model and just wiggles the servo back and forth instead of a constant forward motion/flow when laying down even the outline skirt. I have retraction settings nearly off so I don't understand why it would retract at all. I've had the same retraction settings for awhile now, even before this issue. Cause at first I was getting some globs and an article recommended turning off some retraction settings which seemed to work great when I first changed them.
    If you want to use the model as I have been doing, I've scaled it up to 3350%
     

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  10. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    ok... here's an update I started printing using the gcode file from cura and all was going well except that somehow it thought my print bed was located somewhere in another universe and was trying to make the extruder go outside the machine!
    So I think I have narrowed this down to a simplify issue. Now nothing I try and print will work cause the extruder servo just rocks back and forth leaving no filament in its path. sometimes making ungodly sounds which makes me have to shut it down. I have a support claim in with simplify and ill let everyone know what happens. the g code in simplify is obviously telling it to extract most of the time for some reason. i don't understand it but that's what's happening. not just large scale models... anything! I was really hoping this would
    be the week to catch up on all the printing I wanted to do... Got my cam, My raspberry pi3 ...and now this! ugh! anyway thanks for your suggestions so far. when I learn what's happening I'll post it here.
    Thanks!
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Does it still print correctly with other software because the extruder behavior doesn't sound like software.
    But anything is possible.
     
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  12. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    Hi Mark...
    I tried the g code from cura and it started to print correctly except for the fact that my bed coordinates from cura were way off. it seems that no matter what I start to print through simplify, the extruded servo just rocks back and forth almost over the entire first layer, or skirt. I forget what it's called when it lays down the outline of the model first, but even during that phase it just rocks ever so slightly back and forth while going on its path, not extruding anything. While the g code from cura started laying down the first layer right away without any of that back and forth behavior. Also, using jog controls, I can make the machine do anything manually. Extrude, move extruded, retract etc. I haven't heard anything back from simplify yet. I might try using cura again and getting the bed offsets correct. I'm not sure of the proper way to do that, I thought after selecting robo r1+ that it would figure my bed offsets into the g code. But I suppose not. Any insight on why the curas bed settings for the robo were way off?
    Thanks
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    No clue on Cura, I don't use it.
    Does your process for Simplify contain the Z offset in the Startup GCode script? If not it will not extrude if the nozzle is too close to the bed -- it can't. Too much backpressure.
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  15. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    If it were me, I would think about using Blender to scale it and see if it changes the mesh at all.

    I use Cura and the scaling has never failed me or produced anything under-extruded like that but I'm on the Robo C2.
     
  16. astro boy

    astro boy Member

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    I don't think it's a z problem because the servo motor is just going forward and back in the space of a second, that is to say each second it moves forward and then backward the same amount. So never really advancing filament. In the model in the pic, it started doing it in that one area. Now it happens as soon as I start any print! Simplify needs me to send them the factory file so they can diagnose what's happening. Could the firmware be corrupt somehow? Or maybe something in the arduino board? It's weird that the manual jog commands will do what they're supposed to. ​
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I have had my R1 do that on occasion. Not very often. When it does the stepper shimmy I was able to get rid of it by completely powering down the printer and moving the head around by had just a bit before powering everything back up. I have had this happen to the extruder motor on the R2 just once, but turning the extruder a bit was all that was needed to get the motor running normally again.
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Unlikely on both fronts. If anything were bad I would suspect the RAMPS or the Stepper driver, but the fact that manual stepping/extruding works rather shoot that idea down.
     
  19. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Wow. If a stepper motor actually had commutator brushes then this would sound exactly like the old-school method of getting an old car's alternator to move on to a different section (by putting it into 3rd and rocking the car forward and back). You're then on a new spot of the armature.

    In this case, I'd turn off the motors and make sure that the carriage can move freely throughout its travel.
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I am leaning more towards what Syniverse support is looking at... A bad profile (FFF file). Something must be making it generate navel gazing GCode.
     
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