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Solved Z-Offset with Replacement Nozzle (Primary) Crappy Prints (Secondary)

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by TimboHamilton, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    Hi everyone. I recently purchased my second R1+ (I had to sell my first one and I just got around to replacing it). I apologize for the lengthy post but I am experiencing quite a few more difficulties with this printer than I had with my last one. I'm hoping I just need to make a few tweaks.

    First, this printer seems to be jamming a lot, which I never had happen on my last printer. On two separate occasions I have had to do surgery on the hot end to get the filament out. As I was typing this, I realized that I'm using a roll of PLA that has been opened since 2016 that came with my first printer. So my first question is, does PLA have a shelf life? It has been stored inside my house. It was stored in the basement but that part of the basement has heating and air conditioning.

    The second problem I am having is that it seems to take a very long time before you can even tell that there is something being printed. I searched the forum and found a post that showed what the first layer looks like when the Z-Offset is set correctly (mine looks nothing like that but I remember my other printer did), but I never found out how to set it correctly. I'm hoping that this will resolve the majority of my problems.

    The third problem I am having is something that I had a little bit on the last printer and I never was able to quite resolve it. I am trying to make a very simple coin or a nameplate or anything of that sort with raised lettering and my logo on it (the type of object doesn't matter - this is something I want to include on just about anything I print for someone else). I have tried making all kinds of adjustments (high quality, high number of top layers, size of the object, etc) but the letters and the logo look horrible. I uploaded some stl files but they have to be resized and then merged. I used Selva to create my logo, then Autodesk Fusion 360 to make the coin. But it was easier to move the logo on top of the coin within Matter Control than it was to figure out how to embed it properly in Fusion. Anyway the files are down there if anyone wants to look at them. coin_post.jpg 20190323_235004.jpg

    I did find a post that said to try a smaller nozzle. I have had a very difficult time finding the exact (overall) sized nozzle as this printer but with varying opening sizes. I have a 6mm nozzle that a .12 guitar string fits in snugly (.30mm?) that I wanted to play with, but the distance from the seat to the tip is around 3/16" taller on the new tip. I have some others on order but I'm not certain of how the height compares to the original. I need to know how to correctly calculate the Z-Offset, considering the normal desired gap between the tip of the nozzle and the bed, and also the difference in the height of the tip as pictured below (I can get a measurement there but I need to know what to add to that for the air gap between the nozzle tip and the bed).

    Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome (even RTFM, as long as you can tell me where the FM is). Thank you! Timothy E. "Timbo" Hamilton
    20190324_001735.jpg
     

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Unless kept in a sealed container with desiccant PLA will absorb moisture from the air and become more difficult to print.

    The correct way to set it you may not have even done before :) Many folks don't because they don't "get" how to do this correctly, but it is quite simple and will get the first layer sorted. First figure out where your slicer/host program (i.e. MatterControl or whatever) keeps the block of optional startup GCode that you can tell it to send to the printer at the start of each print. Assuming MatterControl here are the instructions on WHERE in MatterControl you edit this information: http://wiki.mattercontrol.com/SETTINGS/Printer/Custom_G-Code/Start_G-Code

    In their example the only thing in the script is G28 which homes the printer. Here is what you should have:

    G28 ; home all axes
    M565 Z-1.0 ; set the offset for auto-leveling mechanism
    G29 ; run auto-level

    The important part is that second line. it defaults to -1.0 and this is the number you need to tweak to get your Z offset correct. Print a one-layer test model and look at it. It should look like this link: https://www.printedsolid.com/blogs/news/37035715-get-your-prints-to-stick-check-your-skirt

    If you are too high from the bed make the number LESS NEGATIVE (start with -0.9) and adjust it less negative in small increments and do test prints in between until it looks like it should. If it is too low make the number MORE NEGATIVE (start with -1.1) and adjust/test print until it is correct.

    Write down the final number -- that is your Z offset. Unless you change the nozzle or adjust the hotend in some way this will not change.

    For your last issue a smaller nozzle is required. You were already on the right triack. Fine details (thin walls) require a smalled nozzle diameter to make work. There are potentially other slicer settings to tweak, but start with the smaller nozzle. The stock nozzle diameter is 0.4mm. Your wall on that text is probably less. The Hexagon (stock hotned) uses E3D compatible nozzles. So you can buy them where ever you like. That will make sure the thread size and length of the nozzle will work. When you swap the nozzle MAKE SURE YOUR REINSTALL IT CORRECTLY. It may not mount exactly to the same position as the previous one, but that is not what matters. This picture describes exactly how the nozzle MUST be installed to work:

    correct heat block assembly.jpg

    This is a picture of an INCORRECTLY installed nozzle:

    heat_block_assembly_incorrect.jpg



    That gap will make you have leaks.

    Once you have installed the nozzle correctly, heat the hotend up to 240 or close to that and gently try to snug it a little. Do not torque it tighter, just make sure it is snug. This is because as the two (different) metals heat they expand at different rates and they will loosen up unless you snug them hot.
     
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    One nozzle being different from another in terms of a small bit longer or shorter will not matter since the autoleveling will figure that out when it uses the hotend to probe the bed. you MAY need to tweak the Z offset when you change nozzles, but you may not. Test and adjust if needed.
     
  4. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    Thank you Mark (for both replies)! I really appreciated the reference pictures, etc. I kind of figured out that they needed to touch when I heated it up to loosen the nozzle. For a moment I thought i had broken the hotend, as it suddenly started to swivel freely. I then observed that the two sets of threads have to touch to make the hot end so that it doesn't swivel.

    So, if you don't mind, i have two follow-up questions:

    1. I just want to make sure i understand correctly - So I don't have to worry about that extra nozzle height, because the z-axis is somehow able to detect when it is about to touch the bed? If so, (this is just curiosity) how does that work (just at a high level)? Is it just pressure that it senses?

    2. What if any difference is there in just populating the Z Offset field in Matter Control (currently blank) and editing the startup G-Code?

    I don't mean to be nitpicky, I just want to make sure I understand before I act.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The probing of the bed where it uses the nozzle to touch the bed :) That is how it works. If the nozzle is longer or shorter the firmware will see that since the nozzle is what actually is touching the bed. The way it works is the firmware goes to a prob spot and drives the nozzle down until one of the Z home switches (there are two -- one on each side) opens to indicate that the nozzle is now on the bed. It does this 9 times and then uses that "sensed" point where the switch opened to calculate the level plane

    That is a trap many people fall into and it is subtle. The problem is that the "Z offset" you are editing in that field in MatterControl is GLOBAL. Just applied without respect to the bed leveling. The M565 command in the startup gcode ONLY affects the autoleveling. The firmware will do the probing, and calculate a level plane WITH the z offset included. It will not be "globally applied" it will be applied with respect to the calculated offset.

    SensedPoint + Z offset + calculated plane variance

    Some of those numbers will be negative but that is the math.
    The global one happens first and then the calculated offset is applied on top of that. Not the same at all.

    Better safe than sorry -- no worries :)
     
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  6. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    This is what my start gcode is:

    G28 X0 Y0 Z0 ; home all axes
    G1 Z5 F5000 ; lift nozzle
    M109 S[temperature] ; set the extruder temp and wait
    G28 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Home Z again in case there was filament on nozzle
    G29 ; probe the bed

    Should I insert this line :

    M565 Z-1.0 ; set the offset for auto-leveling mechanism

    between the second G28 command and the G29 command, or after the G29 command? Based on the comment portion of the code, I would guess after the G29 but I don't want to add any variables
    unnecessarily...
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It need to go after the last G28 and before the G29 :)
     
  8. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    I don't know. The auto-leveling function appears to be working great. For that portion the extruder goes up maybe 1/4 inch and back down. But when it starts to do an actual print, no matter how I set the Z offset, it seems to drag on the glass, to the point I am worried that the bed will get damaged.(it makes a squeaking/scraping noise too.

    I'm printing a test ring at low quality using a .20mm nozzle. I have set the layer heights etc to about 60% as was in a suggestion I read. Z Offset is -1,2. The test ring looks like it is going to take a little over an hour to print. Here is the print at around 16 and 23 minutes. Especially early on, I noticed that one side is printing less densely than the other. It just doesn't seem right to me. Thoughts?
    test_ring_16_min.jpg test_ring_23_min.jpg
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Examples of the Z offset gcode you are using please.
    Make sure you have removed any "Z offset" numbers from the slicer/host program other than what is in the startup GCode.
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As for the fact that the filament is thicker on one side than the other -- many many threads about this. It has to do with the rather 'dumb' autoleveling code in the Marlin 1.0.x versions. You have to have the X axis fairly level before it will autolevel correctly.

    Check the Z switches are activating correctly and close together. Review the first post in this thread. Then come on back with any questions :)

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/helpful-videos-novice-expert.7478/
     
  11. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    Here is my startup gcode:

    G28 X0 Y0 Z0 ; home all axes
    G1 Z5 F5000; lift nozzle
    M109 S[temperature] ; set the extruder temp and wait
    G28 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Home Z again in case there was filament on nozzle
    M565 Z-1.2 ; set the offset for auto-leveling mechanism
    G29 ; probe the bed

    This is how my coin looks in Matter Control:
    20190325_125457.jpg

    Here are the prints before and after the nozzle change (from .40 to .20) and the Z-offset change to -1.2. The light blue is .20, and the darker blue is .40. The surface and thickness are definitely much better . I guess I just need to keep moving up, or do you think something else is at play?
    20190325_074304.jpg
    20190325_074356.jpg
     
  12. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    And per your earlier statement, I have only used the g code to change the Z offset, not the macros.
     
    #12 TimboHamilton, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I think your next step to play with cleaning up the text is to either fine-tune the slicer settings or (better still) try another slicer entirely.
    It certainly looks better, but you can do better still : (or rather the printer can)

    You could enlarge the text somewhat and that will also help it out.
     
  14. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    I made a rookie mistake (coding 101 day 1, not 3d printing). I somehow deleted the semicolon after the Z-1.2 in my g code. I am re-printing now. The outline ring printed better, but I'm not sure how the rest of the print will come out. I definitely have a design and/or slicer issue. I used Matter control to place the logo over the coin and then lowered it along the z axis until it was at the height I desired (the reason I did this was because Auto Desk and Sketch up both did not like my logo as far as scaling, etc.).The first part of the coin prints beautifully, and although the logo still needs help, the lettering looks almost perfect. HOWEVER, the printer seems to think that it needs to print out the lettering and logo, then go back over the whole coin with a solid layer, then re-create the words and logo again. This started about half way through the print.

    which slicer do you recommend?
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Heh, of the free ones I'd suggest repetier host with slic3r and then perhaps cura. At least try them. Both will have their own foibles about how you set up the software for the printer (where you define your startup gcode scripts, etc.).

    I still only use Simplify3D for FDM printers (but do not buy it until you have tried all of the free ones).
    For the DLP nanoDLP (which is free) actually works quite well.
     
  16. TimboHamilton

    TimboHamilton New Member

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    20190328_104507_resized.jpg

    It's definitely getting better. I've got it now to the point where I can keep tweaking the design and the slicer settings for incrementally better results. I've figured out that looking at the layers will save a lot of time in seeing how a print is likely to turn out. I'm thinking engraved instead of embossed might be worth a try. Anyway, I wanted to thank you, Mark, for all of your help!
     
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  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    A pro-tip that doesn't get mentioned much
    For a new model I always scan the 'sliced' layer view to see if I have a stoopid. :)
     
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  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The best advise I've ever been given. Has saved me so much money and frustration over the years.
     

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