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Garolite Bed for Robo R2

Discussion in 'Show and Tell' started by adikted2astro, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    So I honestly got tired of using glass. I love printing with glass, but I had to tape it to the bed on each side and I always had to use hairspray or glue stick, which I'm starting to hate. I am in the process of painting thew back of my glass sheets with flat black BBQ and Stove paint, but I wanted to be able to print while the paint cures. I also wanted to stop wasting time by taping the glass sheets to the bed, so I bought a Buildtak Flexplate for the V2 bed. This on is much larger than the other Flexplate systems (V1 bed) and cover the entire bed, corner to corner. I believe the size is 9" x 9" for the flexplate, maybe a tad smaller. Anyways, I also bought a sheet of garolite from Matterhackers (https://www.matterhackers.com/store...ld-surface-creality-cr-20-ender-3/sk/MTU2P9Z1). It's aLayerlock sheet that's 0.038" thick, and 9.25" x 9.25" square. The good thing about this is that if you have a good pair of serrated scissors - like the Milwaukee version they sell at Home Depot - you can easily cut the sheet to fit perfectly on the Builtak Flexplate.

    Here's the best thing about this bed, which is quickly becoming my favorite, I do not need to use any type of adhesion on it; no hairspray, no glue stick. Granted, so far I've only printed PLA on it, but it is saving me a ton of time. Bed temp is 55C and the PLA sticks right to it when hot, then comes off easily after the bed cools. It also does not leave a single trace of the print at all, similar to glass. One of the things I do not like about Buildtak PC sheets is that you will always see an imprint of the part in the sheet, which screws up the finish. I'm picky like that. This garolite sheet looks just as good as when I first put it on and the bottom of my prints is always fantastic. I just wanted to share my experience and provide some info. I also posted some pictures below. The funky star looking things are my mesh points for UBL and the writing on them is just so I can keep track of which point I am adjusting.

    Apparently garolite is good for nearly all plastics, especially Nylon, ABS, and PETG. I haven't tested these yet but I will soon enough. Granted, this is not a cheap upgrade. The Flexplate system is $100 and each sheet of garoliute is $40. But it's looking like I won't have to replace that sheet for a very long time. Also, because PLA prints so well on it, I don't need to remove the flexplate to get any of the parts off. I just use a plastic razor blade and they pop off so easily. I'm very impressed so far.

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  2. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    Nice product. Is it flexible enough to be compatible with the R2 Flex Plate system (sold at partsbuilt.com)
     
  3. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    As far as I know it is. I didn't buy my system from Partsbuilt. I bought directly from Buildtak and even though they said it would be 3-5 business days before it shipped, I got it 2 days after placing the order. It looks like the Partsbuilt one is the same thing. Also, they are the same price on the Buildtak website. The system is anyway ($95 -free shipping).

    You technically don't have to cut the garolite sheet at all. 9.25" x 9.25" sheet will fit in the R2 without causing any problems at all. But, I didn't want to have part of it sticking out since the bottom of it has transfer tape on it. The flexplate is still quite flexible after attaching the garolite, more than you would imagine. I'm printing a relatively large part on it right now on bare garolite. I can upload the timelapse after it's done (if I can upload something like that). Last night I printed 3 small filament spool clips at full speed (50 mm/s) the whole time; no speed reduction anywhere. I wanted to see if they would still stay on the garolite when printing fast (and I turned up my cooling fans too). They all printed perfectly without any problems. When they were done, I tried pulling up on them while the bed was still hot and they wouldn't budge. However, after the bed cooled to room temp (~20C), I just picked them up without a problem.
     
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  4. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    Well I don't think I can upload a video. But, it finished the print a few minutes ago and the print looks amazing. No warping at all and no part of it ever came off the bed. I can't take it off right now (I tried). It's still stuck pretty well. I'll go back in a couple of hours or maybe in the morning and see what's what. I will upload some pics though tomorrow for sure.
     
  5. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    Videos won't be necessary. I was curious about the flexibility of the garolite sheet. Thanks for the feedback. Next time I get to a point of needing to replace the Buildtak sheet, I'll have a look into the garolite sheet.

    Another question comes to mind: What is the maximum temperature rating of the garolite?
     
  6. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    I'm not quite sure what the max temp is, but I know garolite was originally intended for high temp materials that have a tendency to warp, like Nylon and ABS. So I would assume it can withstand high temps. But I do believe that when printing nylon on garolite, you actually don't need to heat the bed. I won't take it higher than 80C, but that's because my R2 tends to fry the wires that lead from the bed to the mainboard if I take it too high. Honestly, I don't really need to go that high, even when I print nylon. 70C is generally my max. I also just found out that if there happens to be any wear or damage to the surface of the garolite, then all I have to do is lightly sand it with 220 grit sandpaper to smooth it out. I can confirm this works because I tried it on the slivers I cut off. The sandpaper smooths out the surface completely.

    By the way, I went out there this morning to check the print and I just picked it up off the bed, like it was just set on it. I'm VERY much liking this garolite sheet. Here's the print itself before taking it off the bed (below). I printed this with Matterhackers Pro Series Marble PLA. It took about 7 hours, 0.15 mm layer height, 50 mm/s, hotend at 208C, bed at 60C, max cooling fan speed was 25%. The cooling fan was low because I printed and installed some adapters to direct the flow better.

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    And here is the bed and part after lifting it off:

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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You NEED bed heat for a lot less filaments than most people USE it for :)
    Do whatever makes your prints work
     
  8. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    Exactly what I was thinking..........................................
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Even I am guilty. You can totally print PLA on a cold bed. I never DO, but you can :)
    I use it for insurance on everything.
     
  10. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    Very nice. Thank you @adikted2astro .
    As far as print bed temperatures go, I generally set it to 40 C or less.
     
  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I am a fan of garolite, things like nylon stick very well to the surface, without making it impossible to remove.
     
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  12. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    That's nice to know. Thank you.
     
  13. adikted2astro

    adikted2astro Active Member

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    Okay, it's been a while since I installed that garolite bed. I've printed at least 1.5-2.0 kg worth of PLA since installing it..........Christmas presents of course. Anyways, the bed is still performing miracles and I haven't had a problem with it at all. I generally keep is between 50C and 60C, no more. It works so well that even small parts with nary a footprint stay stuck to the bed until it cools off. These for instance:

    20191216_115911.jpg
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    These were printed out of Robo Carbon Fiber PLA, 50.0 mm/s, 0.15mm layer height. The rough edge (where it looks like it was sliced) are due to sanding. All retractions were done on this edge and it needed a bit of sanding to smooth it out. The point is, the bottom of each, which is about an inch across, was the only point of contact with the bed. And they printed damn near flawlessly. So, long story short, garolite sheets are now the only bed material I plan on using. I haven't printed any other material on it yet. But, apparently Nylon, ABS, PETG, and TPU stick to garolite really well, some with no heat needed. So I don't foresee very many problems with those. Once I do print with other materials, I'll update this thread. Happy printing dudes!
     
  14. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    Now that you have been using the garolite surface for a while, does the surface smooth out to the point where models do not stick well to it?
     
  15. Lance Weston

    Lance Weston Active Member

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    I ordered a garolite sheet for the R2 from matterhackers for $40. I did a little research after, and found that garolite is a brand name for G10/FR4. I decided to check it out for my 12x12 bed. I ordered:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013HL01W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HP2CEG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    I will glue the sheet on an old piece of glass. I need the glass to hold the sheet flat. At $11 for the sheet and $3 for the glue this could be a nice low cost solution.

    Will let you know how it works out. Thanks for bring garolite to our attention.
     
  16. supercazzola

    supercazzola Active Member

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    Could you buy the stuff from Amazon, and then glue it to a buildtak flex plate? I have an extra plate and am interested. Matterhacker has been out of the R2 size forever


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  17. Lance Weston

    Lance Weston Active Member

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    Yes, but have some reservations. Im am going to glue it to glass first because it is thin .031. I do not know the thermal resistance but I suspect it is high so I want thin. When I mounted a thin build surface to a flexplate system large items curled the flexplate. I then went to micro porous glass glued to a flexplate and I am overall happy with it. Some glass is better than others. For my production, glass is the best because once set up and tuned in I can print hundreds of identical items on the same spot with just periodic cleaning with alcohol then spritzing hairspray. For prototyping where I switch brands of filament I can destroy the glass surface if I put a filament on with more "grabbiness". I am hoping that G10 is a good prototyping surface, it is cheap and readily available.
     
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  18. Lance Weston

    Lance Weston Active Member

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    I had purchased 12x12 glass a while ago:
    https://www.storesupply.com/pc-12926-1123-12-x-12-x-316-tempered-glass-panels-67111.aspx
    I used the glue sheet and glued it to the glass. It looks like it should work great. I am in the middle of a 14 hour print. When it is over I will see how well this works. Another glue sheet would attach the glass to the flexplate.
    First thing I printed was the upper plastic for my dual gear assembly. The cap is not the standard robo cap, it runs the 14 pin cable from the downtown board back to the controller. I got a very good print the bottom of the print was smooth like a sheet of paper, not glossy. I just cleaned the G10 with alcohol and started the new print. Shown is the new upper plastic printed and my printing the next items.
     

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    #18 Lance Weston, Nov 16, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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