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Unresolved Print keeps failing

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Wgreisi, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    I am having an issue with prints failing between the 2nd and maybe 20th layer (normally on the earlier side). I tried the same print 3-4 times yesterday and they all failed (the amount of layers decreased each time).

    I was able to complete a much smaller print after that.

    I read through the forum about failed prints and and exported the g code from matter control with the fan speeds adjusted thinking maybe there was a temp fault. I also put it on a new SD card in case there was an issue there. I also checked all of the connectors

    I ran that new g code and it worked over night (9hr print).

    I tried another, larger, print this morning, off of the older SD card and the same thing started to happen. So I exported a new g code to the new SD card and nothing changed, still stopped early on. I wiggled all the wires again and still not working.

    I was able to see the failure this last time. I heard all of the fans shut down and watched the screen go blank, it stayed blue but all text disappeared.

    I was thinking that maybe it had to do with the electrical in my house so I switched it to an unused refrigerator outlet (all by itself on the breaker). Maybe there is still a voltage drop issue and that is why it worked through the night? What can the power supply typically compensate for? Should I upsize the power supply to be safe? I would rather just replace parts 1 by 1 then do tests.

    The only modifications I have made to my printer (R1+) is the addition of the screen including the legs. The printer is in my basement so it is around 60°-65° constantly.


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  2. BrooklynBay

    BrooklynBay Active Member

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    When you say that the print stopped, does Matter Control continue to show that it's running but the printer isn't working? This issue sometimes happens when you run the connection through the USB port. Try another USB port, and see if this issue still occurs. You could also try a different USB cable. Somebody on this site once referred to this issue as a USB burp.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  4. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    I did get that error.

    I unplugged and plugged everything back in both on the hotend and the ramps. So far the print has been running for 7+ hours (not the cleanest looking print, but that is another issue).

    I read through the post you linked, and it seems like it was a wiring issue. Are there any things that can be done to prevent this from happening?

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  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The error is raised by Marlin (the firmware) when it sees sudden fluctuations in the thermsitor temperature. The firmware reads temperature a lot more frequently (many times a second) than you can see it get updated on the LCD or in a host program. So it is entirely possible that even if you kept a close eye on it you would not see this occur.

    What causes it? There are only a few possibilities ...

    It can be a loose wire or connector between the RAMPS board in the printer and the hotend. There are quick-release (JST style) connectors on the hotend that are located between the controller and the thermsitor/heater core so either a bad wire or a loose connector can cause this. Sanity check your disconnects are firmly connected.

    It can also be caused by the parts cooling fan (not the small fan that cools the hotend, but the one that cools printed parts) blowing on the hotend rather than the bed/part being printed. If that is the case you need to adjust your fan mount to NOT blow on the nozzle. Stock this is unlikely, but if you have replaced the hotend with a different brand and did NOT print a new parts cooling fan mount you could be in that situation.

    Another possibility is a damaged or faulty thermistor -- works sometimes, but fails others. In that case it will likely eventually fail completely, but in the interim you get this error.

    The last (and least likely) possibility is a bad controller board (either the Arduino Mega is failing or the RAMPS 1.4 shield).

    That is really all that can cause this...
     
  6. BrooklynBay

    BrooklynBay Active Member

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    I've had a similar temperature issue in the past. One time it was the heating element, another time it was the thermistor, and another time is was an issue with the power supply. The weak output from the power supply couldn't handle the bed heating at the same time as the hotend, so the issue was intermittent (only when the bed would heat up). Check the voltage of the power supply with the hotend & bed heating simultaneously. There's a set screw adjustment to raise the voltage slightly. You could also check the hotend temperature while blowing on the hotend. If it suddenly drops then takes a long time to build up, you will know that the power supply isn't providing sufficient power to run everything correctly.
     
  7. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    I did see in the terminal that it dropped from 222 to 200 (failure point) over the period of 20ish reads. I understand that the was over probably only 15 seconds but I just don't understand how it could be a wiring issue or bad/failing component and have a cool down period.

    It makes me think power supply like brooklyn mentions. I have an e3dv6 that I purchased a long time ago. I thought I read in the linked post that the e3dv6 had its own potential issues but that was because it had a lower wattage heater. I wonder if that would lower the load on the power supply.

    Alternatively does anyone know of a current 400w power supply? All of the older posts that have links are from many years ago and the part is unavailable on Amazon.

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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If the thermistor is failing there is no actual cool-down, it is simply not reporting the correct temperature (hence the failing bit). As they die (they are resistors) the resistance will vary -- sometimes wildly.

    Here is an example of a workable power supply ...

    same as stock wattage (350w) : https://smile.amazon.com/ALITOVE-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Transformer/dp/B06XJVYDDW
    higher than stock wattage (400w): https://smile.amazon.com/inShareplus-Universal-Regulated-Switching-Transformer/dp/B07RDF7TJY

    The E3D uses a 25w heater core, the hexagon is 30w -- trivial load differences.
     
  9. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    So now the bed won't heat up. Am I that lucky or are these issues some how related?

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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  11. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    That'll do it.

    I am assuming the ramps need to be replaced?[​IMG]

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  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Probably. At a minimum that connector needs replacement (link to part from Amazon should be in FAQ) and that MOSFET that drives the bed is likely toasted. Given the cost it is easier to swap out the RAMPS board. The easiest is to buy an R1+ version from partsbuilt: https://www.partsbuilt.com/ramps-board-r1-robo/ and that is a direct replacement. Worst case you can swap in a generic RAMPS board with a bit of extra effort, but as long as partsbuilt has them -- I'd go that route. .
     
  13. BrooklynBay

    BrooklynBay Active Member

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    My original RAMPS developed the same issue on the heat bed plug. There's a lot of current going through that connector. A recommended add on is a solid state controller to take the load off the RAMPS.
     
  14. Wgreisi

    Wgreisi New Member

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    So I was labeling the wires to swap the ramps and the 11A + connector is burnt too.

    These are the original components from Robo l. The connectors are rated for 10A but the board, and other posts on this form, call out 11A connection points. I understand that these parts have a factor of safety that probably covers that cover that 1A.

    I already have 2 additional boards from Robo that I got several years ago and the generic board Geof linked initially for the swap instructions.

    Knowing that this will happen again on the Robo boards, should I use the generic(assuming they have a higher rating) or actually solder in female sockets that have a higher rating.

    Or will the relays prevent this issue?[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Those connectors CAN be rated at 15 amp, but the more common ones are 10. The board only supports 11 amp to the bed, but they often draw more (this is a problem with cheaper heater pads) and the RAMPS will end up blowing the MOSFET for the bed. The scorch marls are evidence of long-term over current. This really a RAMPS issue, not the Robo (but they used it as do many others).

    Generic RAMPS behave exactly the same way. Like @BrooklynBay suggested the real fix is to interpose a relay that the RAMPS switches on/off and run the heater directly from the power supply. The Large MOSFET board in the top-right of this picture (with the large heat sink) is the "relay" I use to switch the bed power.

    612wiH-VKGL._SL1000_.jpg
     

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