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Solved Extruder switched off. Temperature fell too much during print

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by janot928, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    Hello.

    I have been having this problem for quite a while now. I used to be able to print abs with a 230c° hotend and a 90-100c° bed but now it is even hard to print pla with a 200-210c° hotend and a 60c° bed.

    I've read the other post about this error and as far as i can tell:
    -it isn't the psu fault (i've upgrade to a pc power supply with 36 amps 12v)
    -it doesn't seem to be the thermistor's fault because it is working just fine, i've got temp reading all the time
    -the main control board has got a 80mm fan on top of it so it shouldn't be overheating.


    I'm getting quite frustrated so if someone has any ideas before i spend 90£ into a E3D-V6

    http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=602035Untitled.png (link for the picture)

    i paused the print right before the 4 min mark, and then the temperature keep on falling slowly until it get's to the error
     
    #1 janot928, Aug 16, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  2. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Possibly a faulty thermistor or loose connection? Check all the plugs for the thermistor from where it sits in the hexagon boot to the ramps board. Try wiggling them and see if you can induce a fluctuation.

    It could also be caused by the parts fan blowing on the heater block causing it's temp to drop off.

    That could also be a function of the thermistor not being properly seated in it's hole so it's measuring more on the external face of the block instead of the internals like it should.

    Kapton tape can be a good way to secure the thermistor in place then put the boot over it for insulation.
     
    #2 Mike Kelly, Aug 17, 2015
    Frankn likes this.
  3. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    sooo..... i turned out to be a PID autotune problem. Now it's fixed.


    But second problem. it seems that i cannot go above 110 bed temp and 210 extruder. I'll try with hooking up both power supply to see if it cause a bootleneck.
     
    #3 janot928, Aug 18, 2015
  4. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Its a restriction in the firmware, want to go hotter, modify and reflash your firmware.
     
    #4 WheresWaldo, Aug 18, 2015
  5. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    what line is it? (iv' got my max temp on extruder at 290 and bed at 120)
     
    #5 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If your firmware is already modified it could very well be a limitation of the power supply.
    You only get a limited amount of watts to 'spend' so if the bed is very hot and the extruder is very hot you may be exceeding the limits of the power supply.

    You could swap in a larger one (more watts) for not a lot of money. I found some on Amazon that were the same size physically. Or, you could go for a really large one and just mount it external to the printer.

    Alternatively you could switch to 24v from the default 12v. That requires a little bit more work (because the Arduino/RAMPS need 12v so you have to add a step-down converter just for them) but the bed heater will LOVE it at 24v.
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Aug 19, 2015
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Look for lines in Configuration.h that look like this (somewhere around line 160):
    Code:
    #define HEATER_0_MAXTEMP 310    //Robo default 285
#define HEATER_1_MAXTEMP 275
#define HEATER_2_MAXTEMP 275
#define BED_MAXTEMP 120         //Robo default 85
     
    #7 WheresWaldo, Aug 19, 2015
  8. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    Already changed those lines ^^ I'll try to find a bifier psu

    do you have anny idea to link a computer psu and the original psu together
     
    #8 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would avoid that. Just go for a beefy external one if you need those sort of temperatures or (better yet) go to a 24v one.
    You can get a 24v power supply that is the same size as the stock one (or really, really close). Just remember the 12v step-down module for the Arduino/Ramps
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Aug 19, 2015
  10. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    do you have a tutorial link maybe ?
     
    #10 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    No, sadly.

    If you want to go that way then here are the general instructions.
    (I have not personally done this because I have been fine with the 12v supply.)

    One of these:

    http://www.amazon.com/Switching-Tra...d=1439999113&sr=1-1&keywords=24v+power+supply

    Then you add one of these in-line with the power from the new P/S to the power for the RAMPS (the 12v input power lines).

    http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converte...=1-21&keywords=24v+to+12v+step-down+converter

    The ones in the bottom left connector in this picture are where that comes onto the RAMPS:

    http://www.my-home-fab.de/Documenta...Description-for-Arduino-2560-with-RAMPS-14/en

    Lastly you take the heated bed output on the RAMPS and have it switch a relay instead of directly heating the bed:

    http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RLS1...UTF8&qid=1439999363&sr=1-2&keywords=12v+relay

    the 12v coil goes to the output of the RAMPS for the heated bed and it switches the 24 volts from the (new) P/S to the heated bed.
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Aug 19, 2015
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I think you might also need to modify the firmware for what is called the BANG-BANG mode on the heated bed.
    @Mike Kelly can give you better specifics as he has done this.
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, Aug 19, 2015
  13. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    I'll first try to get a stronger psu^^ i've found a few with 1.2 kW sooo i might give it a try

    by the way the original error came back ("extruder-switched-off-temperature-fell-too-much-during-print")

    looks like my termister isn't working anymore. I'm going to upgrade to an E3D V6
     
    #13 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  14. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Did you check the thermistor location? Not being able to go above 210 is usually caused by that
     
    #14 Mike Kelly, Aug 19, 2015
  15. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    my thermistor broke off so ...
     
    #15 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
  16. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    You really don't need a whole new hotend to replace a thermistor
     
    #16 Mike Kelly, Aug 19, 2015
  17. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    I know but i wanted to go with a hole new extruder setup
     
    #17 janot928, Aug 19, 2015
  18. Frankn

    Frankn Member

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    Why not just get a 12VDC/40W heater and a new thermistor for a few bucks.
    The V6 is not just a 2 bolt dropin setup and it is expensive.
    But if it's burning a hole in your pocket, go for it. LOL Frank.
     
    #18 Frankn, Aug 19, 2015
  19. janot928

    janot928 Active Member

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    so, i´ve received the E3d V6.. and seems like everything got fixed :D i can now get up to 290c and 100c without any problems
     
    #19 janot928, Aug 31, 2015

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