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Unresolved PLA adhesion problem

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by zenekNY, Oct 4, 2015.

  1. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    So recently just out of nowhere my prints stopped sticking to the bed. I'm using an Aqua Net hair spray and I didn't have problem with it previously. I've gone through more that a half of the bottle of it and recently parts of the print don't stick. Yesterday I printed a large print 23cm x 13cm area (all flat on the glass) large part of it sticked to the glass but some of it didn't and the not adhered part started lifting and that side is not straight but curved slightly. After removing the print next morning I wiped my finger over the printbed and it was a little greasy (not only under the print but around it too). Is it possible that the Aqua net spray contains some greasy product which makes the glass oily?


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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not that I am aware of, perhaps something else dripped on the glass?
     
  3. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    I doubt if anything dripped, I run an oiler but it wasn't too moist. Also the printbed was pristine clean and dry before I applied the hairspray. I thought that if there was any settlement of the substance the greasier part would float on the top (likely) and when it runs low it would spray the greasier substance. But I'm using the hairspray almost everyday for the prints so it shouldn't happen. What are you using for the adhesion? Did you ever run dry the aqua net bottle?


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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I use the bare glass w/Auqanet, pretty much what you are describing.
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Well, there could be something else in play here. I think @Mike Kelly can correct me if I am wrong, but the heater on the Robo is only 215 mm square, so your 230 mm long piece would have to be partially on an unheated portion of the bed. As such there may be a drastic variance in bed temperature between the middle of the heater (in relation to the bed) and the outer edges of your print. This could certainly cause lifting of an edge.
     
  6. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    I think waldo's theory is a good one. If you're printing something larger than the heated pad I suggest as low of a heated bed temp as possible. 30C would be my advice
     
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  7. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    I'll try dropping the heat down a bit. But why would the rest of the platform feel greasy after cleaning the platform completely and just applying the Aquanet? Also after replacing my X carriage the nozzle tip raised by a fraction of an inch. How do I change the Z offset in the firmware? Which line is it?


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  8. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    The nozzle position is not relevant to the Z offset.

    Clean your platform with isopropyl alcohol
     
  9. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    But isn't the Z offset a height adjustment?


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  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Z position is set by homing and the offset applied afterwards. The nozzle is actually the Z probe in the Robo. So it really doesn't matter if your hotend nozzle is not in the same place as an original Robo.
     
  11. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    I understand, but for whatever reason I noticed a slight under-extrusion on the first layer which previously wasn't a problem. I also flashed the firmware right before that to speed up the calibration process and to calibrate the extrusion.
    EDIT: rather than an under-extrusion it's gaps between the lines of PLA (as if the nozzle was too high above the glass)


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    #11 zenekNY, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  12. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Totally unrelated occurrences, don't try to find meaning in places there isn't any.

    It will be much harder to help if you combine issues and processes together, work on one thing at a time and you will have a very reliable printer. If you don't, you will always be chasing one thing or another and will never be completely happy with this or any other 3d printer. Such is the state of the current technology.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Exactly. Change one thing a time and understand what it affects otherwise you are like the man with many clocks..

    Segal's law
    Segal's law is an adage that states:

    "A man with a watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never sure."[1]


    So if you change multiple settings at once you hope you stumble across a good setting :)
     
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  14. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Yeah the Z offset is a measure of the distance from when the nozzle touches the bed causing the carriage to stop moving, then the lowering of the switches till they untrigger. The nozzle could be 10mm different from where it currently is and would still have the same Z offset
     
  15. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    I totally see where you guys are going with it however, I'm suspecting that bad adhesion could be caused by the fact that the nozzle is slightly higher in the air and instead of laying the plastic flat on the bed, it prints it so it just touches the bed and it lays a thin string which appears to be a nice bead but it won't stick. I cleaned the bed with alcohol and tried again, there was no more grease on it whatsoever but still some parts of the first layer didn't stick.


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  16. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    You need to reduce your Z offset for that
     
  17. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    alright! the Z offset problem solved! I went for a -0.85
    Now I decided to print a test prints and all fine detail is not as good as I would expect it. Very narrow gaps are totally filled and extremely thin detail is not being printed at all.
     
  18. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1444433305.788526.jpg ImageUploadedByTapatalk1444433316.557242.jpg
    Black filament is very hard for taking pictures of it. This piece is printed after extruder calibration with a layer height of 0.2mm an temperatures 200nozzle/50bed


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  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Try lowering your extrusion multiplier just a fraction.
     
  20. zenekNY

    zenekNY Member

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    Do you mean the E steps/mm ?


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