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Unresolved Cant print anything without a raft?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by TKCC71, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    need some help. I cant print anything with out a raft. I dont understand it. I have tried cura, simplify 3d mattercontrol and nothing prints on this printer. I have adjusted offsets and still no luck. It either curls around the extruder or puts down a thing stringy mess. However when I print with a raft it prints fine? Puts down a nice layer for the raft.. I have been battling this for weeks. I did 2 hours with tech support and still no luck. They basically said to mess with the offsets. I have tried everything I can think of.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Member

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    I have had the same issue and gave up or in to just using rafts. Works fine with them but without guarantee failure. I feel your pain. Interested to hear what comes of this thread.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If it is not laying down a first layer that looks like this:

    https://printedsolid.com/blogs/news/tagged/first-layer

    then you either have a clogged nozzle or the offset is wrong (sounds like a clog in your case since you say is thin and stringy). Printing too hot can add strings, but you should be getting full extrusion.
     
  4. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Thanks Mark, will work some more with my offsests again today. Its hard for to believe its a clogged nozzle. I can raise my Z axis immediately after the fail and extrude the filament fine and that that fact it also prints a beautiful raft and then the remainder of the object. I've also run cleaner filament through it as well just to make sure its not clogging up. The raft for some reason lays down really nice.

    But if I go straight to the object with out the raft, and it tries to print the skirt, it just prints supper thin, curles around the extruder and makes a mess/curls around the extruder etc..I have adjusted offsets from .1-1 and there seems to be no happen medium. Could it possible be a extrusion % issue for the first layer.

    I'm trying to print the simple 20mm cube with out a raft.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    OK, that sounds like the Z offset then.
    Depending on the software you use and how you configured it depends on how you set that (not a matter control person myself).
    I always did it in the startup GCode and adjusted the M565 value until it was right.

    You don't even need a cube to test that... a single layer print is enough (attached one for you)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    mark i tried printing the circle you had sent and here's what came out. i deleted my fff settings in simplify 3d and reloaded their standard robo3dr1+ with autobed leveler as a starting point. didnt make any changes. I know how to change offsets in the software but not sure where to begin because one side printed ok, but still a little lumpy and then as went to the middle and the right side it started the scribble mess and curl around the extruder?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  8. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Ok I have gone back and leveled and leveled and leveled. Adjusted offsets at .1mm increments and cant seem to find a happy medium. Still prints like garbage. I have spent 7 hours on this today and still no luck?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Im going to call it a night and try again tomorrow. Any suggestions based on what you see here. I have also attached a video as well
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, all I can offer is that it is still not level across the X (and perhaps some of the Y if I am seeing the picture correctly).
    The Y should get sorted somewhat with the autoleveling if you can get the X corrected.

    Your paper leveling shows the X as level and it is denormalizing after doing the autoleveling?
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Member

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    Mark, is there any possibility that the issue could be related to a slightly deformed bed perhaps that can't be detected by the eye?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The bed glass can easily be slightly unlevel (there are some other discussions on that here -- check other threads).

    That would not be a surprise. This is one reason they went with autoleveling on the R1 : to help sort out the inconsistencies (manual leveling just can't do that).

    There are some practical limitations to the current auto-leveling that Marlin implements. The newer (non-Robo specific) branches of Marlin have something called Mesh leveling which (IMHO) is a far better approach. (see other threads for discussion of this if you are interested).

    However to get your print working you should be able to just manually level the X axis (I would do it in the center of the Y myself) and make sure the two Z switches are activating at as close to the same position on both sides as you can manage. This may mean adjusting them up/down slightly.

    That picture shows the leveling has failed significantly. It goes from 'close to normal' (some spots look right) to 'wagon wheel ruts' (nozzle too close to glass) to just barely extruding at all (extruder nozzle way too close to glass). Since the pattern changes across the X we can be sure that the X itself is still not quite right (and that means the Z switches will be misreporting). This is why it is crucial to the stock autoleveling for you to have the X axis level ... those two switches :)

    For reference here is a good first layer :

    https://printedsolid.com/blogs/news/tagged/first-layer
     
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  13. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Yes I actually check it in all places. I even used the Simplify 3D leveling wizard. When I stop the print and home the extruder. I did notice the y is off again quite a bit on the left side of the bed?
     
  14. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Mark I did adjust the rods by hand on each level. I homed the printer then lifted it .1mm on the Z axis in the software and slid paper underneath. Moved it to the corner, center and back right left and and checked with paper until I just hear a click on the switches.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Do the switches trip at the same time (or really close)? You don't want one switch tripping and the other one still a few millimeters off (for example).

    If they are set correctly it should be a toss-up which one will trip.
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This matters due to the weight of the extruder carriage as it is moving from side-to-side to sample the bed. That extra weight will affect the position a bit.
     
  17. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Ok I will have to double check when I get home tonight from work. I did put in a ticket for help as well (Cant get appointment until 2PM tomorrow). Will see what they say. I did it once with them a week and a half ago and still havent resolved the issue. Unfortunately, I'm real close to taking this printer back to Best Buy at this point. Would anyone in the forum be willing to skype with me on this tonight to try and sort it out?
     
  18. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    Also I do notice my bed slams to a dead stop when it comes forward? Does everyone's printer bed do that?
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not sure what you mean.
    By forward do you mean Y home?
    When you home it it will drive it until the home switch for that axis triggers.
     
  20. TKCC71

    TKCC71 Member

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    yes all the way forward on the Y until it slams to the end. Makes a bam noise as if it wont go any further on the Y-.
     

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