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Unresolved My S3D first layer looks like a ballbag :/

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by kain0r3D, Apr 20, 2016.

  1. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    Hi all,

    Just swapped from MatterControl using Cura as my slicer to Simplify3D.

    I got a little overzealous and tried to start with a complex model which failed miserably (the nozzle was putting down super fine layers and just dragging them up again).

    So I've been trying to lay down a simpler model with not much success. I got it to finish, however the first layer was super nasty.

    I swapped out filament to see if that made any difference. Same.

    Attached are the images of the first layer. It seems worse on one side than the other, I had this problem to a lesser extent in Matter Control but not in the exact same spot. Also attached my FFF file, you'll see it's set at 185°C which I'm trying now. The print in the images attached was at 195°C.

    Looking at it while it's printing it looks as though the filament is curling off the bed almost immediately which is what the bumps are you see. Looking like so:

    EDIT: Deep linking didn't work, I was referring to 0:57 of the video.



    I'm using a glue stick for adhesion and always have when using MC.

    Appreciate any input.
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 kain0r3D, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  2. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    UPDATE:

    185°C wouldn't even extrude. The extruder gear wouldn't even move.
    205°C is much better but leaves a rough surface.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    What Z offset do you have defined for the M565 command in your startup GCode tab (in the process settings).
     
  4. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    -0.19mm

    I've since changed that to -0.16. Is there a reasonably common test print model for first layers I can use moving forward to show improvements?

    While I have someone experienced with both the software and the printer, I have a couple of things that may already have solutions on my wishlist:

    - Stop the oozing spots left on the bed from autolevelling.
    - Reduce delay in extrusion at the start of prints. Currently I do 6 skirt outlines as the extruder takes 4-5 seconds to actually kick in.
    - Move bed forward after print completion (nice touch from MatterControl I miss)
    - Turn print cooling fan off after prints.
    - Change the bed dimensions in S3D, I had to do this as a fan mod makes my bed slightly smaller. Stops the print head from ramming up against the side of the printer.

    Appreciate your help.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Single layer. Size to fit bed as needed.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    20160422_192924.jpg 20160422_193035.jpg 20160422_193043.jpg 20160422_193103_001.jpg 20160422_193112.jpg 20160422_193127.jpg 20160422_193145.jpg 20160422_193202.jpg

    What can you gather from that? I know that black wasn't the best choice...
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Looks good in most spots.
    You might have a small amount of over extrusion (calibrate the extruder). Otherwise most of that looks not bad at all.
     
  8. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    Ok will do.

    In S3D, how can I change the dimensions of my bed to make it slightly smaller? The print head is ramming up against the right hand side of the printer when it is autolevelling which I'm sure can't be helping.
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not sure which is right/left :) I assume you mean X (but Y could be right left depending on where I stand)

    Make sure the home limit switch for that axis is working. That is the only position for any axis that it is certain of and if that is mistriggering everything else is hosed.

    In Simplify it is under General Options the Machine tab.
     
  10. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    I've changed the dimensions of the bed in the settings, which are correct however the problem still exists where the bed leveling starts too far right on the X-axis (looking from the front of the machine. It starts maybe 15-20mm to the right of the X-axis limit switch and as a result tries to move that same amount beyond the x-axis limit on the opposite side, it just smacks into the Z-axis rods and proceeds to probe the bed.

    TL;DR, how to I shift my bed 15mm to the left on the x-axis in S3D?
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sounds more like you need to adjust it in the firmware if that is what is overdriving it.
    Auto-leveling and the bed dimensions are also defined there. The software definition that S3D maintains is for it to know when to stop driving an Axis. No effect on the firmware...
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    and honestly, the autoleveling points are a hardware limit. If it is hitting something it should not be the actual bed extents because those are well established and do not vary from printer to printer. Are you certain that something is not obstructing travel?

    Wires (often under the bed) or otherwise not obvious can get loose in shipping and start getting in the way of bed movement.

    Make sure that when it homes it is actually touching the home switches. I have seen wires get in the way and you end up with a 'false' home.
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, May 17, 2016
    Last edited: May 17, 2016
  13. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    It's not a home switch issue, nothing is getting stuck. Here's a video of a G28 running followed by the G29. The G28 works fine, the G29 however as discussed above sets itself well off to the right. I have a mod that needs the bed level to start slightly right but not that far.

    Note the crash at 0:29 in the video that is the issue I'm trying to resolve.



    Can I change something in the EEPROM via MatterControl? Or is there a better way.
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Hmm. That looks like the bed is sized incorrectly.
    Not sure where in Mattercontrol that is defined (not a MC user myself).
    I would assume when you install and configure it that there is a profile for the Robo you choose that defines the printer.

    It would be the extents that are off, not the home since that is defined by the switch (which it seems to be activating on the opposite side).

    In simplify this screen does it:

    MachineConfig.jpg
     
  15. kain0r3D

    kain0r3D New Member

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    Changing the build volume (x-axis) size or the origin offset on that screen has no effect on the auto-leveling. If I save changes in the machine options then run G29, it reverts to the right-aligned probing.

    I can change my process settings scripts and tell it where to probe however it seems like a band aid fix. I need a proper solution to somehow change the probing parameters, if that is via the firmware.. any idea how to do so?
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I haven't looked into that part of the code before.
    However, looking at configuration.h:

    #define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_GRID
    // with AUTO_BED_LEVELING_GRID, the bed is sampled in a
    // AUTO_BED_LEVELING_GRID_POINTSxAUTO_BED_LEVELING_GRID_POINTS grid
    // and least squares solution is calculated
    // Note: this feature occupies 10'206 byte
    #ifdef AUTO_BED_LEVELING_GRID

    // set the rectangle in which to probe
    #define LEFT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 15
    #define RIGHT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 205
    #define BACK_PROBE_BED_POSITION 230
    #define FRONT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 20


    I think those are what you need to play with.

    Having said all of that, there is no reason your printer should require this when none others do. If those numbers are not valid you have something wrong with the printer. If you are under warranty you might want to schedule a one-on-one with a Rob tech and sort that out. The probe positions are well within the bed size limits.

    As always look here for firmware instructions:

    http://guide.robo3d.com/Wiki/ROBO_3D_Firmware_Release_Notes
     
    #16 mark tomlinson, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
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  17. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    Why do you have so many spacers on the X-axis End Stop Bolt? This is whats causing the issue. When it homes you are offsetting from the standard settings. So when it thinks it has homed its actually +15/20mm on X-Axis. You can easily see this in the video when it tries to go to the center while homing is it actually off to the right side when looking at the front of the Robo. If you want to keep it like that you will have to adjust X-Axis Auto-Level settings according to the offset/spacers you have applied. You will have to change your build size of the X-Axis as well. It would be best to do this in the firmware (configuration.h) so you don't lose your settings.

    Around line 327
    Code:
    // Travel limits after homing
    #define X_MAX_POS 220
    #define X_MIN_POS 0
    #define Y_MAX_POS 254
    #define Y_MIN_POS 0
    #define Z_MAX_POS 200
    #define Z_MIN_POS 0
    Around Line 363
    Code:
    // set the rectangle in which to probe
        #define LEFT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 15
        #define RIGHT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 205
        #define BACK_PROBE_BED_POSITION 230
        #define FRONT_PROBE_BED_POSITION 20
     
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  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    @Ryan TeGantvoort
    Good eye! I watched the video small and never even saw those 'extenders' someone stuck on the trigger arm for the X axis home switch.

    WTF? That will totally change the bed geometry as you have pointed out.
     
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  19. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    LOL! That was the first thing I noticed and I watched the video small too! It looks like they were added to keep the Extruder Fan away from Left Side when homing the X-Axis.
     
  20. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Wow what a great catch. Never even paid it a thought.
     

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