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Solved TPU Repeatedly Fails

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by MarcusK, May 19, 2016.

  1. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    I've had my Robo for over a year and done hundreds of prints, mostly with PLA, wood filament, and PETG. I need to do some flexible parts for work, so I bought a roll of Alchement TPU off Amazon. After experimenting with temperature settings and settling around 210, I've gotten the first few layers to print well but the print always fails after several more layers. I've tried almost everything I can think of:

    -Filament guide tube with notch for hobbed bolt
    -Disable retraction
    -Very slow speeds (10-15mm/s)
    -Ordered and installed 0.8mm nozzle from Printed Solid (thanks for the gummy bears!)
    -Measured filament diameter to be about 1.85mm and updated S3D settings accordingly
    -Enable/disable cooling fans
    -Tried variety of layer heights
    -Tried variety of flow rates

    The only other thing I can think of is that maybe my hobbed bolt is worn out and not gripping the filament well enough. How would I test this?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated!
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Patience and perseverance are the only things I can suggest.
    When I first started trying to use NinjaFlex it about drove me batty.

    Everything works (or not) differently with the more flexible materials. You really do need to think about the model as well as everything else you mentioned... Not all models are even printable with the most flexible materials. They simply can't support their own structure in spots.

    In general, the most flexible ones (a la NinjaFlex) are suitable for small or flat-plane style objects and the less flexible (SemiFLex, some nylons) are more suitable for things that need less flex, but still need to be bendable. NinjaFlex is the least generally applicable filament out there... Great if you need to make o-rings and grommets. I like the SemiFlex a LOT better (simply because it is more easy to use and still quite flexible).
     
  3. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    Is there anything I should do differently because of the larger nozzle? Even at such a slow print speed I was shocked how fast the extruder gear was turning in order to push all the filament through, and I don't know how that affects flow rate and pressure in the nozzle.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Just keep your print speeds low. under 20 mm/sec I would say (although you will need to experiment as every machine/environment is different). Mine was happiest at about 10 to 15. As long as your nozzle sizes are correctly in the slicer it should generate the correct speeds for everything.

    If you have not done it then calibrating the extruder would be the next thing to do. If it is over or under extruding (even a little bit) that will have a big effect on the flexy stuff.

    You can't do thin vertical slabs or uprights with flexible filament since it will sag or collapse as it gets higher and support material is a non-starter.
     
  5. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    If I'm trying to print a vertical model that isn't ideal for flexible filament, would that cause it to stop extruding though? I assumed it wouldn't look great, which is fine, but I thought it would keep extruding at least. Does the already printed material somehow pull or attract the filament in the nozzle?
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    No, extrusion issues are not due to the model. You are likely getting bound up in the GregsWade.
    It is frustrating at times and another reason I don't do large models with NinjaFlex. You can have it working great on small prints, but as the printer continues on even a small amount of heat creep will cause the extruder to bind. Even without creep it can happen since the filament is so flexible. Slower speeds are really the only thing you can do with that. If you seriously need flexible filaments a lot then consider upgrading the extruder. There are other options to the GregsWade that are better for flexible filaments. There are even a few threads on here about those. For me the need was not routine and creeping along slow was good enough (along with the feeder tube modification) since I had nothing large to print.
     
  7. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    Does heat creep refer to the filament inside the cold end getting too warm? Should I try changing the cold end fan? I currently have a Noctua 40mm fan installed there because the stock fan was so loud, but the Noctua doesn't seem very powerful.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, heat creep is where the heat from the hotend creeps up the body of the hotend to the point where the filament softens in the cold-section. Normal hotends are large enough for this to normally not be an issue, but the compact style of the Hexagon, E3D and similar means that there is not enough metal so a cooling fan MUST be running.

    The 40mm Noctua should be moving enough air. I am still using the ones E3D included with their hotends and have had no issues.
     
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    My e3d 30mm fan pushes way more air than my 40mm and i switch back to the 30 for ninja or semiflex. I think its the duct i use on the 40 that blocks my air
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Oh and when i run .8 nozzle i 50% my overall speed. Try 5mm/s i know it sounds aweful but it just might work.
     
  11. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    It makes sense that the duct might block some of the air from the 40mm fan. What 30mm fan do you use? My stock Robo fan is shot anyway.
     
  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The standard one that comes with the e3d hotend.

    Are you running the stock hotend ?(hexagon)
     
  13. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    Yes, I'm still using the stock hexagon. I've never had any problems with it that I wasn't able to work out, so I haven't felt the need to upgrade to the E3D. I'll just look for a high quality 30mm fan online.
     
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  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Ill try to find the brand name on my fan as soon as i finish this print im running. Noctura is a great fan. I have had good luck with evercool from amazon.

    I will tell you before you buy anything i personally could not run flexible worth a darn with the hexagon. I never figured out why. I do believe some members have had good luck doing so but i just had fail after fail.
     
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  15. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    The TPU filament I have seems to be about 1.85mm diameter from my measurements. Is that enough out of spec to cause failures?
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is for the Hexagon. Those get stuck at around 1.8-ish Might work a little better on E3D, but still that is out of tolerance in my book.
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Yep out of tolerance. Id contact the seller and ask for a replacement.
     
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  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If they let you keep it let me.know ;-) i run an e3d and it accepts some out of spec filament with the 2.0 bore vs the hexagon 1.8 bore
     
  19. MarcusK

    MarcusK New Member

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    Ah. That probably explains my problem! I'll have to get some different filament and try again.
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I agree, with your symptoms this does pretty much explain it.
     

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