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20 micron

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Nature, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Nature

    Nature New Member

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    Can someone show me print results with layer resulution 20 micron
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  3. Nature

    Nature New Member

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    well atleast something, but i dont understand why there is no exact info with discription, with print results(photos) on website like a reason why i shoulde buy robo r2
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This forum is all printer owners and users. No Robo3D folks here.
    I suspect (but since I do not work for Robo I can't say for sure) there are no print examples because they no longer support the R2/C2/R1 and ONLY support the E3 educational licenses.

    Not that there was much in the way of examples when they did support them
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    So, in short, do not buy an R2 if you don't already have one or if you don't know that it will meet your needs.
    So far they are still doing warranty repairs, but extra support does not exist. We users are here to help each other.
     
  6. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    To get that sort of print resolution, regardless of the make / model of printer, the print bed must be level with respect to the travel of the extruder. The other issue which you run into is flatness. The print bed surface flatness must be better than 20 microns. The only surface which I am aware of that could meet the challenge is a glass surface.

    These aspects apply whether you have a Robo R2 printer or the latest Prussa printer or a delta printer ( non-Cartesian style ).

    If you can spare some time, go to the end of this posting and watch the video:
    http://community.robo3d.com/index.p...lexplate-and-micro-porous-glass-for-r2.23755/
     
    #6 tkoco, Feb 18, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Everyone does know that 20 microns is 0.020 mm, right?

    I do not believe the printer can achieve 20 micron prints, the resolution may theoretically be 20 microns but getting any FDM printer to do that will be difficult. Without a feedback loop for stepper motors there is no way to guarantee a microstep is 0.020 mm. The finest I have ever used both my R1 and R2 printers is with a layer height of 160 microns, which is 8x what you are asking for here.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Did you look at the thread I linked? *
    It is not that it is impossible, but it is very hard to tune the printer for it to work. Almost beyond the point of practicality in my opinion.
    But really fine prints can be done if you have the patience (speeds and acceleration and jerk have to be dropped to very low numbers or belt slop will kill it). The real reasons you don't see any posts on this type of printing is because you nailed it -- FDM is not the tool to use.

    Honestly I see no real point in it and I think too many people get caught up in just looking at specs. "Oh, this one can do 10 microns, it must be better" <phooey on that>. If it can do 0.1 layer height you are at 90% of the most practical "best" you can do (or should ever need to). Because as you mentioned in passing -- FDM is just not the technology to do that sort of detail. DLP or SLA will get you there and look good doing it.



    *Jeff (@tesseract) was using layers as fine as 0.01mm in one example which you can find if you search. More over he did this on the original beta. More POC than anything usable, because a sheet of 0.02 layer prints would take a week.
     
    #8 mark tomlinson, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  9. tkoco

    tkoco - -.- --- -.-. ---
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    If you really need that sort of resolution for your printing needs, as @mark tomlinson has pointed out, a resin printer ( DLP or SLA type ) would be a better investment. For FDM printers, like Robo or Prussa, the thinner the layer, the longer it takes to print a model. I have a model which takes 37 hours to print on my C2 printer at 100 micron layers ( and it is mostly hollow ). Looks great after it finishes :)

    Assuming that I wanted to go through the trouble of fine tuning the C2 printer and print the same model at 20 micron layers, I would be looking at over a week of printing to complete the same model. A large resin printer probably could print the same model at 20 micron layers in less than a day.
     
    #9 tkoco, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Again, my comment still stands, you are asking a stepper to hold a precise level of 0.02 mm per layer for each and every layer when our cheap printers can't do that. The stepper motor/drivers used only divide voltage by the number of microsteps and then move the stepper however much that voltage rotates the stepper, there is ZERO guarantee that those micro voltage adjustments can accurately move each and every step 0.02 mm. Plus the fact that lead screws and GT2 belts have a lot of slop, makes it nearly impossible to guarantee that precision. If the R2 used ball screws and closed-loop steppers for all axes then maybe it would be more precise and might be able to do it.

    I remember all the posts that tesserat posted when I first got here, and what he was able to do is just short of amazing. But the more I have used my printers and other printers to the more I am convinced that FDM is the wrong technology for very high resolution printing. SLA/DLP and SLS are the way to go and consumer SLA printers are getting some incredible results. There I agree with both @tkoco and @mark tomlinson, SLA/DLP is definitely the way to go if high resolution is what you are looking for,
     
    #10 WheresWaldo, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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