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Bed Can't Get Above 90Deg Before Error

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by JeffreyB, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Member

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    Has anyone printed any ABS with the R2? Here's a screen shot of my bed attempting to heat up to 110 deg. Two issues: #1 it took 20 mins just to hit 90 degs with the door shut, that's just unacceptable. #2 when it hit 90, it errored out with "Unhandled communication error. The was an unhandled error while talking to the printer. Due to that OctoPrint disconnected. Error: Heating failed, system stopped! Heater_ID: bed". It happens consistently...

    Anyone had success with bed temps above 90? Any clues before I call Robo?
     

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    #1 JeffreyB, Jun 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I dont believe they intended the bed to go over 80-90 degrees and likely didn't build the machine to do so (heating failed error) I'd suggest if that is what you bought it to run that you call them and talk with them about your options of running ABS on the R2 model.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I am not sure (have not looked at the firmware for it) if there is a fixed limit in there and if so, what it is.
    I suspect this may be the problem with the connector to the bed.
    The "Unhandled communication error." is what the bed pin issue has been raising.
     
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  4. JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Member

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    I've looked in the FW, and it's set to 110 deg. And if you try and set the bed temp to anything higher than 110 on the front panel it will resort to "Desired 110 deg C". It still shouldn't take 20 mins just to reach 90 degs...
     
  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    that all depends on the size heater they used. They havent documented any of this for us so we just dont know. I'd get them on the phone and ask them these questions and let them know of the issues your having using their machine.
     
  6. JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Member

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    "Prints 30+ materials types", from their specs. Many of these materials require bed temps well above 90 degrees...
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Marketing v. reality, but PEI coated beds should in theory allow lower bed temps for many materials.
     
  8. Hoa

    Hoa New Member

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    I have the same problem and reported to Robo3D two weeks ago. Robo3D answer:

    "Sorry to hear about the error, we think it might be the spring loaded contacts at the back of the bed mount, please remove the bed and check these out and let us know what you found, thank you.

    Regards,

    Dave"

    I checked spring loaded contacts, they are oked, reported back to Robo, waiting for answer.

    Likely this is a mechanical design problems. It could be the Operating Temperature Range of the spring loaded contacts is rate below 90 C. When the bed heats up to above 90C, the heat (too hot) from the bed transfers to the spring loaded contacts that caused spring inside contacts weaken (mechanical material property) and no longer has tension to push it up, the resolved loosing contacts. I'm waiting for Robo answer then give them this suggestion. Since I don't have an extra bed to wire/solder directly to test.

    If you let the bed temp. going down, reset connection, the R2 is back to normal and works ok.
     
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  9. JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Member

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    Believe it or not, I think it's software, some sort of timeout problem. It think it takes so long to get above 90, something times out and you get the communications error. My R2 consistently errors out right around 90 deg and right around 20 minutes. I did some testing. I went to 89 degs. Tapped on the bed, moved it around and got no errors, so I don't think it's mechanical/heat related. I then started incrementally going higher, 5 degs at a time from 89 deg on up. No problems at all hitting well over 100. Never did fail. But the time between setting the temp (5 degrees higher) and it actually reaching the temp was much shorter since I was already 90 percent there. Any of the experts out there know if there's a timeout in the code for reaching a desired bed temp? If it's not time related, then that's a big coincidence that it fails about the same time during warmup. I also removed and checked the pogo board. I checked the clearances, the contact alignments, and how much the contacts depress when the bed was installed. All looked good.
     
    #9 JeffreyB, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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  10. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Don't know if this is pertinent but RepRap suggests watching the bed LED (on a Prusa)...
    "PID (when properly tuned) only kicks in once the target temperature is reached, you can tell it is functioning because the bed LED flickers as PID turns the power on and off (you want it on constantly while the bed is heating up, any time the LED is off the bed isn't heating). So if you have a slow heating bed look at the LED, if it flickers before target temperature is reached then you probably haven't tuned PID correctly."

    So, it would be good to know if, during ramp-up to 90°, is the bed heater voltage constantly on or is it toggling on/off to get there?

    Also see "What is normal?"
     
  11. Mater

    Mater New Member

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    I seem to be having a similar issue with the same error: "Error: Heating failed, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0", only my print bed will not heat up at all. This just happened between prints. The two pins on the right do not bounce back up like the others. I've only printed with ABS once and that was a couple weeks ago and the print bed heated up fine to 80C now it's not heating up at all. Here's a pic of the board. I can put my thumb on the print bed and push it down over the connector pins and it will heat up, so I'm assuming this is the cause. 20170626_034308s.jpg
     
  12. JeffreyB

    JeffreyB Member

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    I'm beginning to think that the heat is weakening the springs inside the pogo contacts causing them to lose their springiness. If this is the case, I suspect over time, more and more of these problems will be reported.
     
  13. Hoa

    Hoa New Member

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    Jeffrey, as early I stated that a bad design on pogo contacts. Also, each of us has different errors, my error when printing ABS at 95C (bed temp.) or higher is.

    Error Detected.
    Connection Interrupted
    Please reset the connection to the printer controls.
    If error persists, please call customer service and report.

    I just waited for a few minutes for the bed temp. to go down below 90C then re-set (reset on screen LCD). I did not touch or remove the bed. Re-run again. Same thing happened. (I did 3 times). Each time, it goes thru the routine calibration and wait for the bed to heat up at setting temp (95C) then error at 91C.

    Back to run PLA, bed temp. 60C, no problems at all.

    Interesting, when I report this matter to Robo. Their answer: "we think it might be the spring loaded contacts at the back of the bed mount, please remove the bed and check these out". This telling me the error has to do with pogo contacts.

    My R2 is still running good as long as I keep bed temp. below 90C.

    I have been read thru this forum, there is a few having problems with pogo contacts.
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Hoa,

    I think this is the problem. Look at the following comment in the Marlin source code used for the R2
    Code:
    /**
    * Whenever an M104 or M109 increases the target temperature the firmware will wait for the
    * WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD to expire, and if the temperature hasn't increased by WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE
    * degrees, the machine is halted, requiring a hard reset. This test restarts with any M104/M109,
    * but only if the current temperature is far enough below the target for a reliable test.
    *
    * If you get false positives for "Heating failed" increase WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD and/or decrease WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE
    * WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE should not be below 2.
    */
    The actual code that affects this is in Configuration_adv.h and for the bed are these two lines
    Code:
    #define WATCH_TEMP_PERIOD 20                // Seconds
    #define WATCH_TEMP_INCREASE 2               // Degrees Celsius
    With an under-powered heater once you are nearing the upper ends of the heating range (BTW the max set is 150°C) it naturally takes longer to reach the target temperature. If it takes too long, according to the comments, the printer fails and only a hard reset will restart it.
     
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  15. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Pogo pin died the same way on mine today... that's 3 reported occurrences already.
    They're quite loose between the 2 main parts, more so than any other pogo pin I've used before. Low quality? My guess is the main parts occasionally move in a way that causes the current not to flow between them anymore, which makes it flow through the spring instead and since it's super thin it melts/deforms it.
     
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  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Very possible not rate high enough. Report it to robo for a replacement. These are the "woas" of 1st generation of a new machine :D. They'll sort ya out.
     
  17. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Didn't want to wait, sounds like what they're doing with others is sending a new pogo pin board, but it will take weeks and if it's a poor design it'll just fail again shortly - I've gone ahead and done what I initially thought they would have used when seeing the magnetic removeable bed:

    IMPORTANT: Look at the last image and be sure to isolate the original connections. Otherwise if you insert the bed roughly without being careful with alignment it is possible to have one of the front magnetic holders already connected, and the matching original connection touch the top thermistor pogo pin. Since the heater switch is on the low side that would send 24V into the thermistor input and fry the Atmel on the printer control board.

    20170630_152055.jpg 20170630_152042.jpg 20170711_195313.jpg

    Will see how reliable that is, been working well for the past few hours 0 issue in days of printing and multiple removals.
     
    #17 Kilrah, Jun 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    interesting ! :D Good job.
     
  19. Seamus

    Seamus Member

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    I've had a similar pogo pin failure, came to the same conclusion as to the cause (heating of the spring causes them to lose temper), and have already replaced the board once.

    I had a slightly different idea for a work-around, though I have to admit I like yours, there.

    I wanted to make an adapter to go between the single-row header socket, via a set of high-current connectors, and solder the wires to the pads on the bottom of the heater board, but I was hoping to get my hands on a second bed assembly, so I could do it non-intrusively, in case I had any further warranty-covered issues crop up.

    Obviously, I wasn't very concerned about keeping the printbed connector-free, but I kind of like your approach to using the magnets and acorn-nut studs. Please let us know how this works out for you.
     
  20. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    I'm just trying my first ABS print with high bed temp, set it at 100° and I also got the disconnection at about 86° (from cold). When preheating at 80 or so and leaving it for a while so the whole mass gets a chance to heat it will then stand going to 100.

    Those are actually for the extruder, the bed ones are just below, set to 2°C over 100 secs. I've now built/flashed a version with that changed to 2°C over 300 secs.

    I've also built a version with the whole THERMAL_PROTECTION_BED disabled, will try that later hoping to allow bed removal during pause without causing a reset.

    Note that since the temp sensor is on the bottom side which is quite a distance away from the print surface the actual surface is only at about 78° when set/indicated temp is 100°C. And 103-105 indicated is about the max that will be reached given LONG heating times, so 80°C is about the max the R2 will achieve.
     
    #20 Kilrah, Jul 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017

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