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Considering buying a ROBO 3D R1+

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by latreides, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    I am looking to buy a new 3d printer, and the ROBO R1+ has caught my eye.

    Some review sites have it in their top 3 (if not #1) for printers less than $1000, but others say to avoid it.

    As far as I can tell it ticks all the right boxes as far as form and function; but many of the reviews that say its no good talk about the quality of the prints, or that the parts regularly break down.

    My usual printing is with basic PLA (at 235c) with a 0.2mm layer height at ~40mm/s. Nothing too demanding.

    Is this a solid, reliable printer that prints good quality parts?
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, but... make sure you test it completely when it arrives and if there are any issues promptly get Robo on the horn to sort them.
    In fact, you would be best off going through a reseller like Amazon since they will simply replace the unit.
    Once you get one in that is working they are a good work-horse. The two Robos I have run mostly non-stop.

    The advantage of the R1+ to the C2 or R2 is that it is still largely an open printer and spare parts* can be had almost anywhere that sells reprap components. The problems people do have are generally QC type issues or things damaged in shipping. They are made assembly line :)


    *For the R1+ there are two components that are not standard:
    1) the bed. It is very custom to the Robo in terms of size.
    2) the R1+ uses a slightly customized Ramps 1.4 board. It is easy enough to convert back to a standard RAMPS board (we have a thread detailing that done by @Geof)

    Steppers and other bits are all standard fare for a RepRap style Cartesian printer.
     
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  3. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    I am still doing research to figure out which printer to upgrade to, and the Robo R1+ has stayed at the top of my list, but I have some concerns. I want to know exactly what I am getting before I get it. My first printer I just rushed into blindly without knowing what I wanted, what I needed, or what I was really getting. I do not want to make that mistake again.

    Print quality. Some reviews talk about poor print quality, unfortunately they don't elaborate much beyond describing the type of object they printed. I don't know if its a software issue where a better slicer would alleviate all of their woes. They also don't generally talk about what they consider good. Are they comparing the print quality to a Ultimaker or a Prusa? So (please be as unbiased as you can be) what is the print quality like for the Robo R1+ ?

    Bed Adhesion. Quite a few reviews say that without using a glue stick or hair spray, the parts (PLA) just slide around on the bed. In my short time 3d printing, bed adhesion has been the #1 point of failure. Is this generally true for the Robo R1+ ?

    Noise. Some reviews say that its quite loud, other add as a "pro" that its quiet. Obviously each of these reviews have a different idea of "loud". I know that there is no enclosure to block sound (well there is an optional one, but its hideous), so how loud is it really?

    Build quality. The Robo R1+ looks...flimsy. Like I can easily break it (bend/warp/etc...) accidentally by applying a little force on the extruder assembly or any of the related parts.

    Autoleveling. Because the Robo R1 has different models, its difficult to determine which model some reviews are talking about, and if the problems were fixed in newer models. Is the auto leveling good? Many reviews say that its inaccurate and requires all sorts of manual tweaking. What is the current state of the auto leveler?

    Bonus:
    I like the looks and size of the Robo C2, except the lack of a heated bed is a deal breaker for me. Is there a (reasonably easy to add on) heated bed solution for this? How does the C2 stack up to the R1 (other than the obvious build size).
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    This is entirely subjective so I am not sure what you want. You know the numbers I presume (ranges for layer heights, different nozzles, speeds, etc) so there is no quality limitation there. The only limitation to the quality is the length of the belt drive on X and Y since as those get longer more drive lash is inherent.

    Not if you get the Z offset correctly configured.
    Will you want to use some sort of adhesion enhancer (like hairspray)? Maybe. Some do, some don't.

    It is a machine made up of steppers, belts and pulleys. It is not hideously loud, but it darn sure is not quiet. Almost none of the FDM printers anywhere are. If you want quiet do not go with FDM. Use SLA or (better yet) DLP


    The axis are made of sturdy bits (metal rods, extruded plastic, etc) the case is just thin plastic. It is fairly sturdy compared to other printers, but if you want a completely steel frame look at the C2/R2.

    Autoleveling works as well as autoleveling works. No printer I have tried with autoelveling is perfect. This one is no different. You will want to manually level things first just to make it more repeatable.


    Much better detail (due to a shorted, sturdier drive train) much smaller bed. The lack of bed heat somewhat restricts your choices of filament, but not as much as you might imagine. It is more of an assistance to adhesion than a requirement in many cases and the bed coating/sheet they use (replaceable) assists a lot with adhesion.
     
    #4 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  5. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    For my personally biased comparison metric, the $350 Monoprice Maker Select V2.1 I have now has regularly outperformed the R1 & R1+ I had prior to that printer. It has a slightly smaller build area, but I've yet to need to print something that is bigger than the specified build area on that printer.

    Also, Robo flat out lies about their build area, because the heater on the build plate is 180mm x 180mm and does not heat the entire bed. As you might imagine, this causes issues if you ever print outside of the area covered by the heater.

    Some people report that the R1 they received was an excellent machine, but I never saw it.

    My standing advice on this is to buy it from a retailer like Best Buy or Amazon.com, and if the particular one you get does not perform out of the box you return it for an exchange because dealing directly with Robo is a crapshoot at best and a "ride-out-the-warranty" exercise at worst.

    Anybody that posts this complaint about any 3d printer is an idiot and everything else they have to say on the subject should be discarded.

    A plain glass build plate like what is on the Robo is only good for PETG variants with no other adhesives applied (and that only when the glass is really hot). And the qualifier there is that you need some Ending Gcode that gradually cools the glass to reduce thermal shock and never actually shuts off until you remove the print and manually shut it off to prevent the PETG from tearing chunks out of the glass.

    Both R1s I had were obnoxiously loud. They rattled while running (glass build plate vibrating on the magnets that held it, plastic frame vibrating in turn, fans also being cheap/loud, etc.). The current printer I used I have to physically walk over to it before I start to hear it, while the R1 I could hear from outside my house.

    It is flimsy, but this is true of most any not-steel-framed 3d printer you buy. This is also why I tend to recommend the Monoprice/Wanhao printers whenever someone asks me for a printer recommendation. Hard to go wrong with powder-coated steel as a frame.

    My impressions of any newly shipped R1s that people post about here lead me to believe they are still hot garbage except for the rare unicorn printer that actually had QC attention paid to it and didn't ship with damaged/broken components. This goes back to my original point above about returning/exchanging the printer with a retailer until you get one that works out of the box.

    DO NOT "GIVE ROBO A CHANCE TO HONOR THE WARRANTY" the way many of the battered housewife Robo owners typically advise you to do. Use the big box retail store exchange policy to get one that works without issue, and FFS do not buy directly from Robo.

    It's a joke that is built on aesthetics more than actual function or any step forward. The only upgrade vs. the R1 is the frame and blatant ripping of Octoprint for their much-bragged-about wifi backend/interface (literally just a re-skin of Octopi).
     
  6. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    If the bed size wasn't an issue (5" is plenty for my uses) would you recommend the R1+ or the C2?

    I have serious issues with adhesion and I have a heated bed, I couldn't imagine any print working with a non-heated bed. Is there a viable heated bed solution to this?
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    C2, no question. Superior design in every way.

    Contrary to popular belief you do not need a heated bed for everything... We have printed a wide assortment of filament types with no issues on that unheated bed (edit: remember it has the replacable coating on it that helps.)

    Somethings DO require a heated bed as in : ABS, PolyCarbonate and some nylon blends. Those you will not be able to print well on the C2.

    However most others are fine with the bed coating they use if you get eh Z offset adjust ed correctly (and the Z offset wizard does a pretty good job with this).

    Also the Pi and OctoPrint are a far superior way to use the printer (i.e. wireless) and you do not require a computer attached.
     
    #7 mark tomlinson, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    While we may disagree on many other issues, this is true. You are far better off buying the R1+ from someone like Amazon Prime where you are going to get a no-questions-asked return policy. Otherwise Robo will walk you through trying to repair them. They are not that way (or not as bad) with the C2 since there is darn little YOU CAN do to that one as a consumer. It is far more difficult to tear down and work on.
     
  9. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Would 4.7" be enough? Because I've got the perfect printer to recommend for that and it's only $220.

    It also has Wifi access built-in. It's manual-bed-leveling only, but auto-leveling is over-rated for a bed plate that small.

    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21711

    For an enclosure, simply keep the cardboard box it came in, empty it, flip it over and place it over the printer to protect it from drafts.
     
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  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    For the original poster:
    I have many printers and can print you samples off each if you want to pay shipping or you can use our 3dhub if you perfer
    https://www.3dhubs.com/service/204630
    My robos are not stock as a heads up (different hotends and extruders) but i can use whatever settings you want and give you whatever info you need. Its better to be informed then to buy and regret
     
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  11. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    No, 5" is minimum. The parts that I print just barely fit on my existing 4.9 inch bed (with little to no room for a brim), thanks for the suggestion though.

    After having a printer with no bed leveling (and then upgrading to manual bed leveling), I can say with conviction that a printer without an automatic leveling bed is a deal breaker for me.

    This brings up a point that I have avoided mentioning, but aesthetics play a key factor in my printer purchases. Its not as important as the functionality of the printer, of course, but I will not buy a printer that doesn't have a pleasing aesthetic that looks like it might belong in an office, not one that looks like it should be in a garage or shed.

    I really appreciate the offer, but I don't think its necessary. Its not the quality that I am worried about the most, and for that real feedback from real people using the device, rather than trolls or their opposite, is enough. Mostly what I am worried about is bed adhesion. Even more so with the C2 not having a heated bed.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    We do have a few people who are here that have had a bad experience with Robo printers. I consider it fair to keep an open ear to contrariwise opinions :) However, the majority of people with the R1 have had success. There are a number of things already mentioned that can be problematic, but for any printer in this price range that is a given. Some of us have played with various ones (and have chimed in on this thread) and it is a good thing for those perspectives too. Probably my single biggest gripe around the R series Robo did is more around customer service than the printer itself, but going forward with the C2/R2 that game has to step up since those are NOT user serviceable to any real extent.

    In your initial post you queried the quality of parts and unlike an actual Prusa this one will come with commodity parts sourced abroad. That is not of itself a bad thing (since replacements are easy to find and cheap) but something to bear in mind.

    All that aside bed adhesion with the R series is simply a matter of getting the extruider Z offset dialed in correctly (that will take a little experimentation) and then using bed heat or other tweaks (a la hairspray) when needed.
     
  13. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    So my choice right now is between the R1 and the C2. I am leaning towards the C2 (I am considering buying one today) but I worry about two things with that.

    You said that the C2 is not made with quality parts like the R1 is? What exactly does this mean?

    You mentioned that getting the R1 dialed in (bed adhesion) was just about getting the z offset good, what about the C2? Right now I have a heated bed, manual leveling, with a BuildTak sheet, and I have trouble getting adhesion with regular PLA (even more so when it has to print little tiny infill on the first layer) unless I have a 200% wide & tall first layer, printing at like 5mm/s (and this brings its own set of nightmares). I just want to print. I do not want to have to try 5-10 times for each model to try and get adhesion, and then hope it doesnt pull up halfway through a 12 hour print. What is the C2 like in this?

    Bonus: All the reviews say that the C2 touch screen is terrible. I watch them having to press really hard multiple times for it to actually register, is this the case will all C2's or is it a known/fix/fixable flaw?
     
  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Maybe we should troubleshoot the printer youve got. Either first layer is to far away or a temp issue unless your printing abs. Nylon or pc lol. Maybe you wont need a new one but instead can print while you look around
     
  15. latreides

    latreides New Member

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    I've been troubleshooting it for the past two months. I have leveled the bed (very manually with spacers and a little less manually with a bed leveler), I have adjusted the z offset, physically (by making sure two pieces of paper can slide between the nozzle and the bed, catching just a little bit) and in software (via gcode offset), I have upgraded my software, I have bought a new after market extruder and hotend, I have followed every walk through, every advice, from every forum and article that I could google. I bought new BuildTak sheets, made sure they were clean with isopropyl alcohol (this made quite the difference) I have tried many different temperatures, using many different filaments. I have tweaked the extrusion and layer settings in every way imaginable.

    I finally managed to get it to stick with a 200% wide first layer as long as its not printing really tiny spots (slowing the first layer down to like 5mm/sec makes this part work 'ok') but even with all of that, a few hours into the print and it starts pulling up off of the bed. I have tried everything I can think of. I am exhausted. I would like to solve this issue (because maybe it will come up in the future with another printer) but its too late for this printer. I have spent more time trying to trouble shoot this than its worth.

    This is why I am looking into getting a R1 (or a C2). I want a printer that just works. Adjust a few settings and start printing. I don't want to spend most of my day, every day, for weeks, trying to get a decent print.

    Does anyone here have a C2 and an R1 that can recommend one or the other? What is the quality of the C2?
     
  16. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    Automatic leveling systems only work well if the bed itself is flat AND sturdy enough to stand up to being probed by the leveling sequence, and is a crutch for bad mounting systems (followed closely by being a marketing ploy). A badly warped bed surface is always going to give you problems, no matter what automatic leveling sequence you use.

    The original R1 I had, for example, could only compensate for so much deflection in the bed during the leveling process (the glass flexed when probed until the resistance in the glass exceeded the weight of the carriage, so it was horribly inaccurate). If the carriage for the Y-axis had leveling screws in it (and a stiffer glass plate) you could get the plate leveled properly and then probe it for surface inconsistencies later.

    As it was, the original R1 plate I had eventually failed and shattered during probing. I was told I'd have to buy a replacement bed since the bed damage didn't happen during shipping.

    After that, things went downhill in a hurry as other components failed and had to be replaced.

    My opinion of Robo didn't really go sour until the R1+Plus I got as a "prize" from a drawing during the CES2016 contest was also a lemon that received zero support (as in, run a few test prints and have the PSU literally start arcing and fry all of the internal components during a test print trying to dial settings in for a bust of Sappho).

    The reason I post in every single thread where someone asks questions similar to yours is because Robo doesn't care about negative reviews on Amazon or people that complain about them on Facebook or Twitter or anywhere else.

    Mark's assertion that the majority of Robo R1 owners had great success is a gigantic "CITATION NEEDED" statement. Just look at the Troubleshooting sub-forum here and remember that everything prior to the release of the Plus version of the R1 was deleted during a "forum upgrade".

    If that's the case, then I'm not sure why you're looking at printers in the Robo price range, because they are ugly/cheap looking machines (from the perspective of someone that's had hands-on experience with most of the front-running machines at this "level" of 3d printer performance). Between the ones I own and the ones in the local maker community I've worked with people on, Robo printers are absolutely terrible for the price.

    Don't fall for the sucker advertising used by the likes of Glowforge for machines that actually belong in a garage or shop or shed and not in someone's home.

    If the C2 is using what appears to be a variant of a buildtak-like coating on the bed, adhesion won't really be as much of an issue as you'd expect.

    My main point of concern with anyone thinking about buying one is their expectation of support.

    In short: expect none.
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @daniel871 Just stop it! You cannot single-handedly save everyone from themselves if they want to by a R1, C2 or any other Robo printer. Yeah you had a bad experience with the company, that doesn't mean that there are any more bad experiences with Robo than with any other 3D printer company. You espouse the great support that Monoprice has but neglect to look at all the growing pains and problems and lack of enduser support that Wanhao had with the printer before Monoprice speced an even cheaper build of the same printers, You forgot or simply refuse to acknowledge those printers catching fire and blowing up power supplies because of poor component selection. You seem to ignore all the upgrades users had to do on those printers to get them working well. We get it, your pissed and you want to make sure everyone knows.

    You want to see lack of support then just put up a list of most of the 3D Printer companies that sell low cost printers and throw a dart at it. Any one you hit will have similar issues. Your story is not unique nor is it typical of only one supplier of printers.
     
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  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That does seem to be the case.
     
  19. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    You missed where I posted about the failure of the Maker Select I had (in late November of last year after buying it in April) where Monoprice paid for shipping both ways and replaced my older version printer with the current version at no charge to me, with a total down time of 5 business days, eh?

    Yes, Wanhao has had a lot of issues with their versions of the printer, but Monoprice's rebranded versions have not been plagued with the same issues. People have posted tear-downs of the machines in groups on FB, Google+ and Reddit where the Monoprice versions have beefier connectors on the boards and thicker wires (though the addition of a Mosfet to the heated bed that is becoming popular across multiple brands is still a good idea).

    The thing you're missing about the Monoprice rebrands in particular is that they are known for modifying and beefing up certain aspects of printers they are copying. Just look at the Maker Select Mini vs. the Malyan M200 and the issues Monoprice fixes before re-selling it.

    Slap a whole one-year warranty on top of that and of course I'm going to be telling people that Monoprice is a better supplier. Especially when they will immediately issue an RMA and swap the printer at no cost to you vs. argue with you about it for months and slowly supply you with parts at "discounted" prices until the warranty goes out.

    You're missing the point where I'm arguing that as bad as other suppliers are, Robo is worse in every way that matters.
     
  20. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    They are better so far with the C2, but they need to be. That printer is effectively not user serviceable to any great extent (and not if you are targeting consumer use rather than a prosumer base).
     

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