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Partial Answer Extreme stringing control.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Oisin, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Hi guys. I've recently started using Woodfill. It's got the best surface quality I've ever seen, so I definitely want to keep using it. The issue is the stringing. I can't control it no matter what I try.

    I've always suspected dodgy retraction settings and I don't understand them all anyway. Attached are some pictures of my issue.

    My settings: Simplify3D slicer, 190C, 5mm retraction at 100mm/s, no wiping, no coasting, printing at 30mm/s. No boxes are checked on the 'Ooze Control Behaviour' box on the 'Advanced' tab.

    I've tried going up in 5 degree increments from 175C to 220C. Absolutely no difference at all. I've also tried playing with wiping and coasting but nothing has worked (though I may have made an error in using those).

    Is there a way to prevent the printer ever leaving the interior of a print when it moves? For example, moving back along the blades of the fan instead of hopping from one to another across the shortest distance.

    I'd appreciate someone helping me solve this issue. If I could control the stringing, Woodfill would be everything I could ever want in a filament.
     

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Simplify 3D has some settings you can tweak that control the toolpath a bit (like inside-to-out or outside-to-in sort of things).
    Usually stringing is a bit hot extrusion temp so try knocking it back a little more. You might also want to lower the print speed a bit.
     
  3. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Lower it from 175? And I'll try knocking it from 30 to 15mm/s.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Odd as it seems, yea... I have one that extrudes in that same area (170-175) for PLA.
    I wouldn't go any lower than that, you can increase retraction a bit more as well (our delta runs more than double what you have). In fact, increase retraction first...
     
  5. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I decided to print the model from this video:

    It has six different sections that you can apply different processes to. If you look at the image, the settings from bottom to top were as follows:

    1) Retraction Distance: 2.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.00mm, Retraction Speed: 50mm/s, Costing Distance: 0.00mm, Wipe Distance: 2.00mm.

    2) Retraction Distance: 5.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.00mm, Retraction Speed: 90mm/s, Costing Distance: 0.00mm, Wipe Distance: 4.00mm.

    3) Retraction Distance: 7.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.00mm, Retraction Speed: 90mm/s, Costing Distance: 0.40mm, Wipe Distance: 5.00mm.

    4) Retraction Distance: 7.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.00mm, Retraction Speed: 90mm/s, Costing Distance: 0.60mm, Wipe Distance: 5.00mm.

    5) Retraction Distance: 7.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.50mm, Retraction Speed: 90mm/s, Costing Distance: 2.50mm, Wipe Distance: 5.00mm.

    6) Retraction Distance: 5.00mm, Retraction Vertical Lift: 0.60mm, Retraction Speed: 90mm/s, Costing Distance: 2.50mm, Wipe Distance: 5.00mm.

    The following settings in 'Ooze Control Behaviour' panel were selected:

    Only retract when crossing open spaces.
    Force retraction between layers.
    Perform retraction during wipe movement.
    Only wipe extruder for outer-most perimeters.

    Temperature for everything was 175C.

    As you can see, none of them did much to help except the very last setting. I also increased my 'Maximum allowed detour factor' to 999.0 to try to get the hotend to follow the contours of the print when moving instead of moving between open spaces. This didn't work unfortunately as the printer still decided to cut corners.

    I'm not sure what to try next.
     

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  6. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Here's another attempt. This one was printed with no coasting or wiping. Retraction was 5mm at 90mm/s and 0.6mm lift.

    It was printed all the way down at 165C.
     

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  7. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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  8. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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  9. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    Maybe try slowing the retraction speed to like 30mm/s and increasing the amount to retract to say 10 or 15 or even 20. I'm just thinking it may be chewing the filament up trying to retract that fast and not actually even retracting. Have you ever had any issues with this filament clogging?
     
  10. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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  11. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Thanks very much for all of the advice, Ryan.

    I've attached my FFF.

    I'll try that model. Thanks for linking it!

    I have an oiler but I haven't used it for this spool of filament. I will start using it.

    I'll try slowing the retraction down on my next print attempt. I have indeed had issues with this particular spool of filament jamming. It happened when I increased retraction to 10mm and the printer had to perform a lot of retractions in quick succession.

    The turbofan was really only an example of the stringing. It happens on every print. I would prefer to print the blades individually though.
     

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  12. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    So the first few things that grabbed my eye with your FFF are:

    Nozzle Diameter of 0.25mm, Woodfills typically require a minimum of 0.4mm.
    You are printing at 0.1mm layer height which I don't believe you will be able to achieve with this filament.
    Lower Bed Heat if it's sticking at 65c. Or could even try shutting it off after the first few layers.
    Should probably be running your fans at 100%
    Check the hobbed bolt to see if its full of filament and/or chewing the filament. Might need to reduce the tension.
    Another setting under the Advanced tab, I think you will want to uncheck "Only wipe extruder for outer most perimeters". I am guessing this will then Wipe whenever it moves without extruding.

    Not sure what's going on with your Starting Script but typically you Home before running ABL.

    Can you confirm what type/brand of Woodfill you are using?
    Have you tried to print this filament with your normal PLA settings?
     
  13. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I got the 0.25 because I usually print at 50 - 100 micron. 50 micron with Woodfill looks incredible. The layer lines are completely invisible. 100 microns looks almost as good.

    I've played around with the bed head and unfortunately the print pops right off if I have it turn off at any point.

    I agree about the cooling fan, but strangely I get a massive drip in temperature of about 20C when they turn on at 100%. I've got a 40W heater and the print head is shielded by E3D's rubber boot. I can't explain it. The only way around it is printing below 210C. It only happens above that temperature.

    I just cleaned the hobbled bold before reading your post!

    Good call on the Wipe option. I'll try that one out.

    I'm using CoLiDo Woodfill. Not the biggest brand name, but affordable.

    I have a normal spool of PLA next to it and have tried printing with these settings. The result is lots of zits. No stringing, but lots of zits.
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I would start to suspect the filament since other spools of the same material print correctly...
    Completely anecdotal, but the one off-brand woodfill I tried was junk. I stick with Laywood or Colorfab Woodfill now.
     
  15. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I can pick up some ColourFab Bamboo Woodfill here in Ireland for 40 euros. I'll do so and compare the results.
     
  16. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    Yea I would try some Colorfabb Woodfill. I cannot find the specs of the CoLiDo Wood Filament to determine exactly how much wood is fused with the PLA.
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The normal woodfill and Bamboo woodfill (ColorFab) worked fantastically for us.
    The only downside is that you must keep it dry as it will become useless if it gets wet (it will become far more likely to break than regular PLA)
     

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