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Solved Extruder Motor Stops

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by KTMDirtFace, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Do I have to change my firmware if I wanted to disable auto-level as a test?

    I know I can just remove G29 stuff from my startup script but I'm not sure then what it would do, would probably end up printing with the nozzle smashed onto the bed. Didn't want to try without asking first. Will it not attempt auto level adjusts during print if I skip G29? (Hopefully thats how it works )
     
  2. woferry

    woferry Member

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    The G29 command is what does the leveling, if you take that out it won't happen. Make sure you fully power-cycle the Robo, i.e. remove USB and AC, as I believe it will retain the results from the previous G29 command. AFAIK it does not get stored in the EEPROM so a power-cycle should clear any leveling results out. Your leveling results look pretty good to me, interestingly it's inconsistent, the left value being more negative in the front but the right value being more negative in the center and back, I wonder if that makes the algorithm do something wacky, since it seems more like things are twisted vs. just "not level". Mine has been consistently higher on one side than the other no matter how I've adjusted things in my testing.
     
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  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    i still believe the bed needs to be shimmed to level. I would think that the auto level can't compensate enough or correctly to compensate being off each direction the way it is, I know mine couldn't when I got it
     
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  4. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    So yea its WAAAY out of level, I just G28 it.. raised it up till a sheet of paper slid under the center. Turned motors off slid it to the left.. HUGE gap, slid to the right..cant even fit a sheet of paper. Gonna make sure my new Y axis blocks are tight. If that doesn't work i'll shim it..looks like its going to take a lot of shimming.

    The reason the auto level numbers I posted probably looked ok was because for that test I had tweaked the Lead screws on each side so that it sat level on left and right but they were tweaked out. now i have it back to both of them triggering at the same time. and the auto level numbers are much more out of whack like -1.9 ish.

    Edit: Just filled the left side magnet holes with paper from a hole punch 6 each. still way off. gonna test something, but I may be printing a shim for my left Y axis bearing block.

    How were the kickstarter robo's leveled? shims? or did they have some kinda adjusters.
     
    #24 KTMDirtFace, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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  6. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Thanks all.
    6 peices of hole punch paper in each of the left magnet holes as shims and its shimmed "enough" for the auto level to work. its still out of whack, though like the left is still a lot lower than the right, but the auto level seems to be able to handle where its at now. This print is going to work now. My z-offset is too high so there isn't good adhesion between the lines, and whatnot but it printed.
    Its so far out without the shims that I think I might print a spacer to lift the left side Y axis bearing block up a bit.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If it were me I'd just keep adding shims :) mechanically level and then you'll probably forget they are there :). Glad your up and running
     
  8. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Yea the problem is with 6 pieces of hole punch paper there is hardly any lip for the magnet to seat into now. So I think a shim to lift the entire left side Y bearing block will work. It seems to be working how it is now.

    I really don't know how it got so out of whack in the first place it was like this before I upgraded to new printed Y axis bearings and blocks. Oh well. now I know whats been causing a lot of my issues.

    Edit: Oh hell...it just started not extruding much on the 2nd layer.. lol
     
    #28 KTMDirtFace, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Lol ah yes didn't think about running out of room for the magnets!

    Lol i just finished a few rounds of jams!!!! The usual of 3d printing :)
     
  10. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    PS Here are my last 4 auto level results, kinda odd as i didn't change anything between it varies a lot

    Code:
    ////////// Left Shimmed with 6 peices of hole punch paper -1.2 z offset
    Send: N7 G29*21
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.30
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.08
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.60
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.29
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.06
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.48
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.29
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.04
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.54
    Recv: Eqn coefficients: a: 0.00 b: -0.00 d: -0.42
    Recv: planeNormal x: -0.00 y: 0.00 z: 1.00
    Recv: ok
    
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    ////////// Left Shimmed with 6 peices of hole punch paper -1.1 z offset
    Send: N7 G29*21
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -1.57
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: -1.15
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.67
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.96
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: -1.32
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -1.74
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: -1.57
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: -1.23
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.73
    Recv: Eqn coefficients: a: 0.00 b: -0.00 d: -1.67
    Recv: planeNormal x: -0.00 y: 0.00 z: 1.00
    Recv: ok
    
    // FAILED to extrude on second layer
    
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    ////////// Left Shimmed with 6 peices of hole punch paper -1.1 z offset
    Send: N6 M565 Z-1.1*90
    Recv: ok
    Send: N7 G29*21
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.30
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.09
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: 0.64
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: 0.36
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.04
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.46
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.28
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.04
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: 0.58
    Recv: Eqn coefficients: a: 0.00 b: -0.00 d: -0.42
    Recv: planeNormal x: -0.00 y: 0.00 z: 1.00
    
    // Second Layer Extrusion, had issues..especially as it started movign faster.
    
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    ////////// Left Shimmed with 6 peices of hole punch paper -1.1 z offset
    // Removed Oiler, tightened fillament holder bolts, moved filiament behind wire chain.
    Send: N6 M565 Z-1.1*90
    Recv: ok
    Send: N7 G29*21
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 20.00 z: -1.38
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 20.00 z: -1.00
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 20.00 z: -0.55
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 125.00 z: -0.82
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 125.00 z: -1.15
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 125.00 z: -1.56
    Recv: Bed x: 15.00 y: 230.00 z: -1.36
    Recv: Bed x: 110.00 y: 230.00 z: -1.08
    Recv: Bed x: 205.00 y: 230.00 z: -0.61
    Recv: Eqn coefficients: a: 0.00 b: -0.00 d: -1.48
    Recv: planeNormal x: -0.00 y: 0.00 z: 1.00
    Recv: ok
    
     
  11. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    New problem! first layer is great, second is terrible after the first bit..

    hmmmmm feed issue? printing at 60mm/s, so the first layer is probably 30mm/s and is fine and when it has sto speed up for the long runs there looks like its having trouble extruding?

    This is Esun PLA, 210/60 .. 60mm/s after the first layer.

    EDIT: I have been hearing a clunking noise i cant track down so I removed the filament completely and am going to print it dry and see if the clunking still happens. Might be the extruder slipping?
    EDIT2: Got the clunky noise with no filament, so that noise must not have been the extruder slipping.

    [​IMG]
     
    #31 KTMDirtFace, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  12. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I tried changing from PLA to PLA/PHA, with its own settings(very similar just hotter on the nozzle). first layer goes down great again then in about the EXACT spot..all hell breaks loose.

    Anyone got any ideas what is going on here?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @KTMDirtFace you shouldn't need that much shiming. You only need to get front to back level with shims, forget side to side, that is done with the threaded rods or lead screws. Not diagonally across either, just each side independently front to back. Once that is done you can basically level side to side at any physical Y measurement and it should be okay. At that point the flaky design of the Robo as well as the not very robust auto-level in Marlin 1.0.0 actually come out fairly good.

    With regard to your image above, you actually have several things going on there. One thing I see is not enough edge overlap, the next issue is with temps and/or speed (especially evident if using white filament), you are either extruding layer two too hot (not likely) or too slow (very likely) as is apparent from the burned bits of filament left on the print. Otherwise the layer height doesn't really look that bad.
     
  14. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    The burned filament is because it stared balling up on the nozzle after it started screwing up. and in the case of the white one it balled up on one of the first perimeters. thats why you see the gap on the left..because part of the perimiter didnt go down

    Its not heat and its not too slow.

    After I did that print i slowed it down from 60mm/s to 30mm/s and it printed ok..but wtf? that is so slow. I have printed way faster than that before.

    As for side to side shimming, I need it...the left side is +2mm lower than the right. and the auto level could not compensate.
     
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    No they came with almost no easy adjustments. The beds were directly mounted to the rails at all four corners.
    Myself and others added spring-loaded screws to mount the corners of the bed to the rails. This gave you an easy way to adjust the bed at the corners and it was largely a trail and error... adjust and test until it was as level as possible. Since there was no way to autolevel it in the firmware you had to do it that way.
     
    #35 mark tomlinson, Mar 3, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  16. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @KTMDirtFace I forgot you have a Kickstarter version. There are just too many version of the exact same R1 to keep track of.
     
  17. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the kickstarter version. I have the R1 with leadscrew update. I was only curious how the kickstarter one worked because it had no auto level.

    Here is a print at 30mm/s ... so the first layer was 15 mm/s

    I have some kind of extrusion problem now.. not sure what... becasue 30mm/s works great. 60mm/s does the crazyness that is shown a couple posts up.

    I should be able to print faster than that.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Nice comparison.. You certainly should be able to print at faster. Not sure how fast :)
    For the really fast ones I use the Volcano machine and it has no issues going as fast as the steppers can fly.
    I have not tested the normal extruder to see what the edges of the envelope were, but if memory serves 60 mm/sec (3600 mm/min) was not a reach. I use the non-volcano Robo for fine detail stuff these days so I have not tried pushing it (in fact it has a 0.25 nozzle so it runs far slower).
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I run my r1+ at 80mm/s with the hex hotend(stock nozzle) and don't notice a quality issue
    :)
     
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  20. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    I used to... not sure what happend, gonna try a new nozzle tomorrow.
     

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