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Unresolved Failed Overhang

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by spankurmonkey, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    So at the suggested setting plus the addition of a Benchy the print ran for a little over six hours.

    Starting with the square position of overhang blocks
    • The one facing the front of the printer (Passed IMO)
    • The one facing to the right of the bed (A Mild Fail at 30 degrees)
    • The one facing to the back of the bed (Passed IMO - Best one of them all)
    • The one facing tot he left of the bed (Passed IMO)
    • The one positions by itself facing to the right of the bed (A Mild Fail at 30 degrees)
    This is the first Benchy I printed on this machine and again IMO it passed. The bow was pointed to the right of the bed.

    I tend to agree that cooling is certainly a factor here.

    Those items from the MPCNC that I started this thread on had a layer height of .26 and a 55% infill and calls for no support. I don't see the benefit of printing those again at a .10 layer height. I personally think that I should be able to print those to spec especially when I see so many other folks printing them and they have zero issues.

    I am still learning but I am not sure really what I should do ...... for most prints I think I would be using a layer between .20 and .30 not sure when I'd ever use the .10 but now I know what it can do for overhangs....
     

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  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    You should fix your cooling issue :D. Then hopefully you wont have these issues my friend
     
  3. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You might want to ping the maker ... It looks OK but doesn't say if it is for the hexagon. I suspect it is but you should check to makes sure.

    Sent from my BNTV450 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Agreed. I havent tried that exact one
     
  6. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    So I mounted the Black Widow mount from Thingiverse today. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:821080

    I have the stock fans mounted to it now with no shroud.

    I am printing a variation of the fan shroud so I am not exactly sure what to expect. The few test prints with just the two stock fans... One that came with the robo and then I bought another of the same size. Were OK but I think there is still some sort of issue.

    For example the tests at .10 layer height turned out good but the print takes forever.... should I not be able to print at .30 and have similar results.. not necessarily an extreme overhang but a simple Benchy you should be able to print at .30... right ??
     
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The higher resolution the worse the print. Share a photo of the benchy issues ?
     
  8. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    I am now printing another set of ducts for this black widow set up.... the duct that comes with that thingy is fine for the forward fan but the rear fan the duct is too close to the heater block. I am now printing these. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1026691

    I am using these fans from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FBPQGQA

    I am finding that I can almost feel about as much air on the intake side of the fan vs the output by the heater block as it seems these ducts really restrict the air flow. The radial fan seems to be better than these but we will see.

    For those of you who do not have the stock hot end and you don't have cooling issues can you post a picture of your set up?
     
  9. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    Well --- total fail now..... keep getting temp error and the print stop now.
     
  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Geof

    I think you read Spanky's post backwards, the 0.10 came out better but took too long.

    Spanky, Think about it this way, you have an angle your printer is trying to create. so you slice the model up and say at .1 it takes 99 layers to print the angle. At .3 it only takes 33 lines. Visualize this, the angle is the same so that means that at thicker layers the overhang must be greater for each layer. If for example at .1 each layer is offset .1 then the same angle at .3 needs to be overhung .3. Here is why .1 prints better than .3, regardless your layer size the extrusion width is always the same. So you have less material touching with greater overhangs and larger layers.

    To compensate for this you either have to stretch the filament tighter during the extrusion by increasing the outer layer speed and/or cool it off faster. Each setting has pros and cons, that is why there is no definitive answer. Faster printing means more artifacts and accompanying loss of detail, faster cooling could result in lower intra-layer adhesion.

    3D printing is all about compromise.

    Also you are probably not utilizing S3D to the best of it's ability simply because there are things that aren't easy to do. A very simple thing if you have a model with an excessive amount of overhangs is to print at a low layer height but print the infill at 200% and only every two layers, that way your perimeters get the advantage of better surface detail and consistency but your print times aren't astronomically long.

    Unfortunately, a lot of this stuff you are just going to have to learn on your own, you will waste a lot of filament, but in the whole scheme of things, the filament is a cheap teacher.
     
    #50 WheresWaldo, Feb 21, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  11. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I did in fact read it backwards. My apologies. to go along with what @WheresWaldo states above, cooling also has to do with temperature. Do some temperature tests/towers and determine what temperature your filament looks the best. It will likely perform the best at that temperature as well. Mix that with good cooling fans and you should have great overhangs. Keep with it, your getting there. Maybe go for a .2 resolution if .3 is ugly and .1 takes to long? That is a pretty standard resolution for a .4 nozzle. I can attach pictures of my set up, but its just 2 fans (similar to the ones you bought but evercool brand) with an E3D V6 (has no improvement on overhands, I needed to print flexibles). If you still want the picture I can do that.
     
  12. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    Picture would be great.
     
  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I've got about an hour left on this print and I'll snap one for you
     
  14. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    well I have tinkered the last week with various fan designs, etc and still no good solution. I tried printing a very simple planter object that slides into a soup can.... so its round and on the right side of the print it totally failed and then at the front you could tell there was a cooling issue as well as in the back. I am only printing at 30mm/s too. and the temp for the PLA was only 208c
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Drop temp to 190
     
  16. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    So I have swapped back to two stock fans on the Black Widow mount - no ducts and lowered temp to 190c. I am using inland PLA black so at 190c I am at the low end of the suggested filament temp.
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Test extrude the filament and find the real best temperature or print one of those temperature tower models that varies the temperature and see what is best.

    The numbers on the spool are scientific wild-assed guesses. Seldom are they the right temperature for your printer in your environment.

    I have printed PLA as low as 175. Just depends on the spool and the environment :)
     
  18. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    Temp tower test.. not sure what that is...
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #59 mark tomlinson, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  20. spankurmonkey

    spankurmonkey Member

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    failed again.. right side at the 190c... not as bad but no sense in continuing the print.
     

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