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Solved feeding filament issues

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Jacques LeDee, Mar 10, 2017.

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  1. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    I just got my ROBO R1+ last week. It's a refurb. the teeth on the hex bolt are bad. The filament stops feeding after about 45 minutes and the printer keeps running like it's printing.

    Is there a modification to replace the hex bolt with something else that will last and work efficiently and effectively?

    I need to know what's out there. I can't print anything right now!
     
    #1 Jacques LeDee, Mar 10, 2017
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #2 mark tomlinson, Mar 10, 2017
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Whichever one you go with make sure you calibrate the extruder when you replace it:

     
    #3 mark tomlinson, Mar 10, 2017
  4. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    Thanks for the info.
    I did get with Robo and it looks like I have a bolt coming in at the end of next week.
    Well-I can't wait till next week. I need this machine up and running. Ordered me a Bondtech QR extruder and e3dv6 hotend. They came in this morning. I have no clue what to do with them tho. Very confusing. I'm going to post another thread with a question about how to make this happen.
     
    #4 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    ? I have no idea why you would do that. A new hobbed bolt is like $9 and you can have that shipped in fast enough :)
    Also it is a direct drop-in for the one you have (had) .. the bondetch is an entirely different style of extruder and will not likely even work on the stock X carriage... Unless you are converting to bowden? That would make sense. In that case you only need to remove the gregswade entirely and just mount the hotend to the build plate and then you will be remotely mounting the BondTech. I think @Mike Kelly might have used that approach for his dual-bowden feed.
     
    #5 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  6. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    Would you mind defining a couple terms for me, since I am new to this?
    Gregswade and build plate
    I will be utilizing the dictionary as well.
     
    #6 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #7 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #8 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The stock X carriage is designed for a GregsWade to mount on top and feed the extruder underneath.
    You can remove the GegsWade and mount the Bondtech somewhere completely different and then use PTFE tube to route the filament from the extruder to the hotend.

    This is what I did on the C2 (you can see my thread in the C2 subforum). I used a different (not bondtech, but another direct extruder like that) and a bowden feed to supply filament to the second hotend.
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Extruders generally gome in two types:

    1) direct (the stepper directly pushes the filament along)
    2) Geared (the stepper feeds into a gear train that then pushes the filament along)

    Either way the filament eventually gets from the extruder to the hotend and gets melted :)
     
    #10 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  11. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    Well, I figured it to be a horrible design and the BondTech one to be outstanding. I just want something that's not going to stop working on me, you know?
    So I've checked out all the links and info that you gave me and it looks like the stock carriage and everything on it goes, and then I build a carriage for the Bondtech (which the e3dv6 will mount into)-correct?
    I want the BondTech and the hotend to be together bc I figure that's much better than the Bowden remote hook-up. I just don't like the idea of remote extrusion. It seems to me that the extruder should be right behind the hotend.
    So, if that's all correct and if you approve my way of thinking, then I'll proceed to build another carriage. I'm thinking of mounting the Bowden underneath the two rails (don't know what you call them) so that it will not interfere with the belt that is driving along the x-axis.
     
    #11 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sure, that is a fine approach. The idea with the bowden (at least as far as it relates to the Robo) is that less moving mass on the X carriage means you can move faster and get less drive lash.

    The rails you are mentioning are probably the X axis rails (the Y axis rails are under the bed and the Z axis is the threaded rods)
    :)
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The nice thing about a geared extruder (like the Wade) is that it will jolly well feed the filament 'somewhere'. Direct extruders can have issues with back pressure from the hotend or feed causing them to skip. Just not as much torque in the direct systems.

    When we were having hotend issues with our delta we switched from the direct extruder (EZRStruder) it came with to a GregsWade we printed on the Robo. We later sorted it by switching to the E3D hotend which had far less back pressure and were able then to go back to the EZRStruder.

    For the C2 second extruder we went bowden because that is what it was designed for. We used this direct extruder:

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:275593

    Which was printed on the Robo (we had to buy the stepper and the drive gear obviously).
     
    #13 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  14. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    So just to be sure-before I start a model in Solid Works, everything goes and is simply replaced by the BondTech (with the e3dv6 attached to it) and the new model (which is the new carriage). And then everything should be fine?
    Will I need to update the firmware?
     
    #14 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, you replace the existing X carriage with a new one that has a mount point underneath for the E3D.
    It will be similar to the current one -- you may want to use something like this to hold the extruder up against the carriage -- the stock R1+ uses something similar: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1192896
    Rather than mounting points for the GregsWade it will have mounting points for the Bondtech.
     
    #15 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Go crazy and redesign it however you like though. As long as you have it fit the X crossbars/bearings and a place for the bondtech and E3D to mount you will be fine.
     
    #16 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  17. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    Will the parts that slide on the x-axis rods come out of the original carriage and be able to go into the new carriage?
    By the way, thanks for all the help and quick feedback. I really appreciate it!
     
    #17 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    #18 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    P.S. always glad to help people who aren't afraid to tear into it.
     
    #19 mark tomlinson, Mar 11, 2017
  20. Jacques LeDee

    Jacques LeDee New Member

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    Thanks a bunch man! I think I now have everything in order to make this happen. I'm printing a prototype of the new carriage right now. It's definitely not gonna be the one I use, but it will give me a good idea of what I need to do. I'm surprised the printer is working-but I did change the heat and speed settings and used a motorized wire-wheel to clean the hex bolt. Ordered those bearings and checked out all the links. It's nice to know there's ppl out there who are genuinely willing to help at no charge. God Bless
     
    #20 Jacques LeDee, Mar 11, 2017
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