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Unresolved Filament stuck.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by joea, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. joea

    joea Active Member

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    Printer sat for a while, with filament left in. PETG, 225 degrees.

    Started up a print and got the dreaded ticking sound when it started trying to extrude. Tried to extract the filament but it seems stuck fast. Tried raising the temp, to 250 but no go.

    Using Matter Control and it indicated the extruder is hot, but I wonder.
     
  2. joea

    joea Active Member

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    Using an infrared thermometer, it appears the hot end is not hot, despite what MC tells me. I dare not touch the hot end but, from a discrete distance, it does not seem to be getting hot either.

    Odd, how the MC display indicated the extruder temp is tracking as I preheat it or let it cool down, but that does not seem to be reality.
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well, let me point out that trying to use a non-contact pyrometer to see what temperature your nozzle is at is a bit of a lottery.
    Not a lottery you are likely to win.

    If the indicated temperature is incorrect it could be from a number of things, because most 3D printer problems are not immediately obvious -- that would be too easy :)

    1) It could be the thermistor is failing/faulty and that is the most common one.
    2) It could be the connectors/wires TO the thermistor are faulty.
    3) It could be the RAMPS board is failing on the input the thermistor is using
    4) It could be that the Arduino Mega is having a bad day...

    You can try touching the allegedly hot nozzle with a small section of filament... does it get soft/melty?
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is also important if you change the thermistor (or the entire hotend) that you get the exact same one if you want Marlin to have the correct calibration curves for the thermistor loaded. Using the wrong one can throw your temperatures off anywhere from a little to a lot depending on the thermistor used. If you do use a different thermistor make sure you change the Marlin code to match that thermsitor type, recompile and reload it.
     
  5. joea

    joea Active Member

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    I get your meaning with the non contact business.

    I should have thought about touching some filament to the nozzle. It does get "melty".

    Not sure how to proceed now, still cannot remove the stuck filament. I'll give it another look sometime tomorrow.
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You can disassemble the hotend and bake out the stuck filament (a bit more work, but it will work)
     
  7. joea

    joea Active Member

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    This AM notice the LCD panel stating "Err: TEMP FALL ERROR".

    Any idea what this means?
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  9. joea

    joea Active Member

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  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is a bit annoying because all that is failing is the thermistor which is really cheap :)
    Sadly you can't easily get the correct one from anyone other than PartsBuilt (assuming they have any in stock).
    So that means the better approach is usually to replace the hotend itself (preferably with one that has replacement parts easily available).
    If you go with a non-hexagon then you have to print / replace the Quick Release plate on the R1+ which usually you do not have printed at the time you realize you needed it :)

    Good luck.
     
  11. joea

    joea Active Member

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    Partsbilt says out of stock. This unit is sort of a hybrid, a very early model, probably kit built, with numerous upgrades. The hot end is not hexagonal, if you mean the cooling fins. Since I have that stuck filament, overall it is probably just easier to replace the entire hot end.

    Can I find the latest recommendations anywhere?
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not surprised that they are out -- if you want to replace it then you have a few options.
    1) Replace it with another non-Robo hexagon. This involves the least effort since all you will need to change is possibly the connectors from the hotend to the wiring harness.
    2) Replace it with a totally different hotend. This means modification of the Quick-Release plate as well as adapting the wiring and also means you need to make a few minor firmware efforts.

    I am not aware of any specific comparisons lumped in one place, but there are some reviews folks have done with E3D, E3D Volcano, Mosquito, MicroSwiss and Prometheus hotends. There are a fair number of folks who use generic knock-offs modeled after the E3D. Others have replaced the entire extruder mechanism as well (like the E3D titan, BondTech and others).
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, Nov 4, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2020
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Browse through the projects/modifications sub-forum and you can find the projects people did to swap to other hotends/extruders.
    It is less of a hassle on the R1/R1+ since you can keep the extruder plate/carriage in most cases.
     
  14. Rod Smith

    Rod Smith Member

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    If you think your hotend is not a Hexagon, then I suggest you remove it and examine it. It may be obvious what it is if you compare it to photos of some common ones, like the E3D V6; however, there can be some subtle differences. For instance, the E3D V6 looks a lot like its V5 predecessor. Thus, you may want to take some photos and measurements and post them here. This RepRap wiki page has photos showing several models.
     
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  15. joea

    joea Active Member

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    He's baaaack. Coming back to this after taking a sabbatical from all things Robo . . .

    Digging into this I find two wires have detached rather easily from the print head hot end. Please see pic.

    I the roundish thing apparently glued to the hot end is the thermistor. I also presume (aren't I the presumptuous one . . .) that the thinner pair of wires, now dangling free in mid air, once attached near that glob of presumably burnt filament, are the power leads to the heater?

    Presumably, this hot end has reached EOL, literally, and needs to be replaced? Does the mess at the end indicate some malfunction was in progress, poor maintenance, or "that's life in 3D"? I can say that a while back, I was thinking of changing the nozzle and it looked nothing like it does now.

    20210103_104340 (Small).jpg
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The heavy gauge red wires are the heater core. The green/white wires with the glass bulb on the end is the thermistor

    If the glass bulb is missing then so is the thermistor (you would need to replace it).
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As for "life" of the hotend... it is indefinite. Only physical damage will kill it. The heater can be replaced (they are generic) the thermistor can be replaced (less generic, but still replaceable) and the nozzle can be cleaned and/or replaced.

    Your nozzle is caked on with the melted/burnt plastic so replacing it is a bit more of a hassle. You would want to remove the hotend, remove the heatbreak from the top of the heater block (since in theory that part is not caked with burnt filament) then remove the thermistor and heater core and take the heater block/nozzle and bake it in the oven for a bit to melt off the old plastic. Then (carefully -- when cool) reassemble :) You might want to just replace the nozzle at that point they are a wear item.
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Brass nozzles wear over time and the size of the nozzle will increase with wear. The more filament you run through it the worse this gets. That is why they are wear items. If you switch to hardened steel nozzles* then you may not ever need to swap again (or certainly not very soon unless you are running a LOT of filament through it).






    *not stainless. Stainless is harder than brass, but nowhere near as hard as the hardened steel
     
  19. joea

    joea Active Member

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    I added this to solicit comments on repair or replace. At this point, I am leaning to replacing it with a more current version of the E3D(x). I presume it is buyer beware with "generic" versions?

    20210103_111938 (Small).jpg 20210103_112141 (Small).jpg 20210103_112235 (Small).jpg
     
  20. joea

    joea Active Member

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    Thanks Mark.
     

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