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Heated bed not heating?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Tim W, Jul 12, 2013.

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  1. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Blue tape is like superglue to PLA. User Blue tape on PLA. I prefer to have small gaps than overlaps when applying the Blue Tape. Problematic: Not really, you'll just notice it on the print a tiny. Heat and Blue tape, DO NOT MIX. When using pla, do not use the heat bed. set it to 0., and just 190/180 I use 195/190 for PLA.
    As for ABS Kapton Tape works well with it, but best of all is going to be the Boro Glass. Let me know how the Blue tape goes.
     
  2. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Oh and I doubt you damaged the heated bed. As long as the extruder nozzle did not touch it you should be 100% fine.
     
  3. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Thanks again Harry. I will try changing back to PLA filament and use the Blue tape on the bed (at 0C!)

    As for the boro glass, I'm trying to find a supplier I can purchase it from locally, but not having much luck. Not sure how sensible it would be to have a 10" square piece of glass sent through the mail! Assuming I can find somewhere that delivers anyway.

    Will try and find some Kapton tape for ABS prints in the meantime.

    Cheers
    Tim
     
  4. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Hey Tim, Mcmaster doesn't ship to you, does it? If you wanted to, I could order you like 2 sheets and then ship it to you? Would you be interested in doing that if you cant find it? Remember the BOro should be 10"x10" and 1/8" thick. As for the Kapton tape, does Amazon ship to you? There are some great suppliers on there for Kapton tape, as well at 2.8 or 3" Blue painters tape.
     
  5. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    On one of the threads you linked I saw someone comment they did not ship to Canada, so I would have to assume they wouldn't ship all the way down here. I have emailed them to check in any case. If I can't find some locally I would be interested in your offer, if the shipping is affordable.

    As for the Kapton tape and wider Blue tape I am sure I can find some on Amazon/eBay etc, but I am hoping to find local options so I don't have to wait for delivery! :)

    Anyway I'm still yet to try the Blue tape I've got with a PLA print, so I'm off to try that! Will be back later.

    Tim
     
  6. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Hey Tim, well I just went to their site, and to the Help section, and found this:

    So I think they do. As it says, you need to place the order, see if they'll ship it to you, then they charge you once shipped.
     
  7. Seshan

    Seshan Active Member

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    Tim, Where are you located? I'm in southern Ontario, I found a place off the DVP, that sells boro, but they want a $100 min order, so i'd have to order 4 pieces, I think it was like $28 each, if they allow me to pick it up, they mentioned shipping in the email they sent me. Even if I have to ship it, would you be interested in buying a piece or two, I was thinking of getting two for me.
     
  8. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Tim is from Ausi as he said earlier in the thread.
     
  9. Seshan

    Seshan Active Member

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    Oh, nvm then :p
     
  10. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Mcmaster won't ship to me unfortunately, according to their reply. I've ordered some Kapton tape on eBay, so hopefully will get that in a few days to try out an ABS print. So far the closest to a successful result I've gotten is an ABS test print (the 5mm calibration STL) but as I said earlier, slight lifting from the bed caused the extruder to knock the print out of position.

    I'm still interested in some boro glass, but will wait until I've given the Kapton a go before worrying about it. Attempts to locate some in Australia haven't gone well!

    Tried a PLA print onto an unheated bed, using Blue tape but it didn't work. I just ended up with filament coiling around itself about the head of the extruder. I suspect I need to re-level the Z to account for the tape thickness. Really should have thought of that to start with!

    So today will re-level the Z height, and attempt another PLA print on the Blue tape. Wish me luck!

    Tim
     
  11. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Wishing you luck Tim. What temperature are printing the PLA at? Also, let me know if you still want me to do that BOro thing for you.
     
  12. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Blue tape is good but if you want to get PLA to stick the best trick is to get a piece of normal glass 10x 10 and some hairspray on a NON-HEATED BED here we have a brand called aquanet that works EXTREMELY well. It is easy and very quick and you can remove prints fairly easily and then a quick spray and by the time the extruder heats up it is dry and you can print normally. Where as with the blue tape it does work but evn if you do not tear it up trying to remove teh print it eventually loses the ability to hold and needs replacing anyway.

    Trust me try the glass and hair spray and you won't ever touch the blue tape again except for what I use it for to hold the glass to the bed haven't gotten any clips yet.
    As far as clean up goes after a while you may see s slight residue that remains after prints are removed but 90%of the time you can respray and keep on going but if you want it clean take the glass run some warm water on it and it all comes right off good as new. The glass also helps with any highs and lows on the birch board as well.


    This glass is not to be confused with the boroglass which is made primarly to remain level when heated for use with ABS and other materials the require a heated bed.

    Good luck and I know you will like the hairspray idea.
     
  13. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Back with another progress report!

    The PLA on Blue tape (the tape straight on top of the heated bed) started out OK but after about 8 layers it began to lift from the tape and shortly afterwards the print was knocked out of position by the extruder head. Harry - the temperature was 195C/190C as you suggested, but when that didn't work I also tried the default 190C/180C with no appreciable difference.

    One thing I noticed after the prints is the partial prints have left quite obvious tracks/indentations in the blue tape; could this mean my extruder nozzle was too low? If so it could be why the extruder collided with the print. Also the ambient temperature in this room is quite low (low 20Cs) which I imagine is part of my problem.

    Would like to try PLA with the bed at 55C but following your and Jeff's advice sounds like I should wait for glass before using heat. But I'm still no closer to finding an Australian supplier for some borosilicate sheet(s).

    Had heard Aquanet spray mentioned before, thanks Jeff. Once again it's proving hard to find locally, I may need to just try some alternate hairspray and hope it works. Although not sure if I should be spraying directly onto the heated bed, and I worry about spray gumming up wiring contacts / printer workings.

    My game plan now I think is to sit tight and wait for the Kapton tape to arrive, and try that with ABS, and use the down time to keep hunting some boro glass.

    Harry - if you have any ideas about how we could safely ship a glass sheet to Australia, I'm open to hearing them :)

    Cheers
    Tim
     
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    do not spray directly on the heat bed put a piece of regular glass down first. talked to Harry he just tried the hairspray and he thought it was amazing I pretty sure he is gonna give up on the blue tape as well.

    In regards to the tracks/indentations that does indeed mean your nozzle is too low the standard way to do it is useing the business card make sure the business card just passes under the nozzle when z is set to home(zero) check on both sides of the x axis and in area where you intend to print all should just let the business card slide under if it doesn't make sure and raise it until it does by turning the threaded rod. Hopefully you have made teh z axis stop mod already so you can quickly adjust the z axis stop point or zero on the bed. If you have not done that mod it only takes less than 5 minutes to do and is HIGHLY recommended. it makes life much nicer when it comes to adjusting that z axis switch.

    FOR PLA DO NOT USE HEAT AT ALL SET IT TO ZERO for all PLA

    With regard to the borosilicate glass that only thing that make s it special is that handles heat very well and does not warp or crack it is mainly used for anything other than PLA because those use a heated bed it can be used for PLA so you don't have to switch out anything just by leaving the bed off but it is not required for PLA regular glass will do just fine.

    I would get the PLA going first then start playing with ABS
    Here is what I would do if I were in your place
    Do the z stop switch mod look for it under the mods very quick and easy
    get apiece of 10x10 REGULAR glass tape it on top of the bed just on the corners so it is secure
    get some hairspray if you cant find aquanet try another brand
    set the bed height with the business card with measure on the left and right side front and back and where you intend to print
    load your print in repetier slice it while it is slicing it spray a light coat of hairspray on the glass it should should just fog the surface of the glass not be dripping or anything heavy like that just mist it
    start the print
    the hairspray will be dry by the time the extruder heats up and the print should begin
    if everything is set right it should be printing just fine

    if you notice no filament is coming out or very little like when you saw the indentations on the tape then the nozzle is still too low re adjust with the business card you should see a small fairly round piece of filament coming out when it prints if it is not sticking then the nozzle it slightly to high and you cna use the z stop mod to adjust the home level stop the print re home and start again

    But you should be very close at this point
    Let us know how it goes
     
  15. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Hey Tim, shipping glass safely to Ausi is not an issue. I would also put a fragile sticker on the box. If you want, I could send you the glass for sure, but probably the Hairspray too, just thinking about customs. I can also find/get you all the supplies you want and then ship them together to you. Like if you wanted a spatula or dial indicator. Or Kapton Tape and Hairpray, or Glass/Nylon anything. I'm going to PM you right now. As to the test prints, glad you keep making progress. IT takes some time to get used to the whole 3D thing, but DONT GIVE UP! Make sure you have some Lift in Slic3r (Assuming you're using slic3r?)
    You can see here where to find and what my Lift settings are in Slic3r:
    [​IMG]
    As to with the blue tape, the marks left, that is fine it is just you peeling off a little layer of Blue tape actually when either a print comes loose or you take the print off. Let me know if you have questions, I'm also sending you a PM.
    - Harry
     
  16. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Thanks Jeff & Harry

    Definitely will keep persisting, not planning on giving up any time soon! Haven't had a chance to dabble further though, been busy with work/family stuff. It's the weekend now though so hopefully will be able to track down a plain piece of glass & hairspary to try another PLA print as per Jeff's suggestion.

    Harry - I have added a Z lift setting as yours. Your retraction length and speed settings were both different to mine too (1 vs 3 and 20 vs 30 respectively). Have adjusted mine to match. Thanks for the shipping offer, will check the PM.

    Tim
     
  17. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    It is funny Tim, Harry was using the hairspray today and he had a hard time removing the print after it had finished it stuck so well I think he used to much. Just remember prints with large flat bases will be extra hard to remove so use the hairspray sparingly. But I really don't think you will have a problem after this with prints sticking if the bed level is set correctly also.

    Before the PLA print though, do the z stop switch mod it is very easy and works great I would say it is a must have takes literally about 4-5 minutes max.
     
  18. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Cheers Jeff. Sorry I missed your mention of the Z stop switch mod before - is this different to the adjustment step detailed in the Getting Started guide? I've done this, but happy to learn of a better way if there is one!
     
  19. Harry

    Harry Team ROBO 3D
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    Hey Tim, if you have not done the Mod yet, I don't recommend doing it UNTIL you have your printer fully working and operating. As to the Hairspray, don't apply it directly do the Heatbed. You need Boro or something between the bed and print surface. At least a piece of glass, but if you do put a piece of glass, DONT HEAT THE BED, unless it is boro the Glass ill probably explode in your face/print.
     
  20. Tim W

    Tim W New Member

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    Thanks Harry. Still not sure what the Z stop mod is, so no danger of me doing it just yet!! Yes was aware I would need a glass sheet before hairspray, but I am thinking about just getting a standard glass sheet for this purpose (PLA at 0C heat), while working out how to source a sheet of boro. Definitely wouldn't be heating standard glass, but thanks for the warning :)
     
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