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Is Prototype quality possible?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by momoe, May 19, 2016.

  1. momoe

    momoe Member

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    hi everyone. I'm running an R1 with a E3d volcano head and a .4 nozzle and I'm trying to do some prototype printing. I use PLA at the moment because I can't seem to remove the supports when I use nylon. I'm trying to get a print that is smooth enough I don't have to sand. I generally print at 195C and a bed temp of 65C and a .2 layer height. My software is simplify 3D.

    I guess my question is, can a robo3d R1 produce the quality I'm trying to get or do I need to look at a different printer/technology of printing?

    All help is appreciated

    K
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The simple/quick answer is yes, most RepRap style printers like the Robo can be configured to do this.

    The long answer is that getting there may not be simple or quick. You are going to need to do a fair amount of experimentation to find the settings that work best. Print speeds, filament temperatures, cooling (and by all means make darn sure your extruder is calibrated). You are going to have a lot of work to do if you expect glass-smooth sides all the way around on any FDM machine under $20k. If that really is a requirement you need to look at SLA or DLP. Those can rock out absolutely perfect models on all sides.

    (support material with Nylon is dependent on the blend. It can be a non-starter if it is a flexible one since most flexy materials make generation and use of supports non-workable. Model around needing supports if you need materials with flex. Stiffer nylons are not a problem, but the temperatures are funky to get dialed in. You MAY be better off with something like Alloy910 which I like to call a FauxNylon, it has much if not all of the normal nylon properties, but it easier to print. I really like Alloy910)
     
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I spent about 3 months experimenting with every flavor of nylon I could get (thanks @Printed Solid and others).
    The choice of opting for alloy910 was not a trivial one :)
    I still use other nylon blends on occasion, but generally for the elongation properties, not overall strength.
     
  4. momoe

    momoe Member

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    Thanks Mark,
    I used the Taulman 618 Nylon. those supports weren't coming off.

    I am willing to put in the work to get this to do what I need but I just don't know enough on where to start. I have my extruder dialed in very close. I think my 10mm cube printed at 10.01 x 9.75x 9.89. Not sure I can get much closer. Is there a list out there of how to dial it in? I don't want to start messing with something to find out my adjusting the temp will undo what I just did. I guess I should have mentioned I print at a speed of 1800mm/min
     
  5. momoe

    momoe Member

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    will alloy print smoother than PLA?
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Smoothness is not really a property of the filament itself.
    PET and PETG tend to have a glossy finish :)

    PLA, ABS, Alloy910, etc. can all print smooth finishes. I would say that the special ones like woodfil or stone are harder to get completely smooth, but still they can be pretty smooth.

    What is hard to do is to eliminate layer lines. Even with the lines visible the print surface can be butter smooth, but you will never eliminate the lines completely.

    What I was getting at before is that yes you can get s smooth finish. I have one configured to where the visible lines are NOT something you can feel on the surface, but you can visually see them.


    Frankly, with the R1 you might be fighting the Z ribbing issue. Consider the leadscrew update or an R1+ (which already includes them).
    There are a number of threads on here discussing the Z ribbing problem in detail. I have the upgrade on the one Robo I consider my detail machine (0.25 nozzle). I did not do it on the other one where I have the volcano and a 1.0 nozzle :) That one is for banging out quick models.
     
  7. momoe

    momoe Member

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    I will look into that upgrade. If you cant feel the layer lines, that is good. I think if I were to paint the part, they wouldn't be visable at all. So I guess the leadscrew update and they dial in the extruder is where I should start.

    Thanks for the help. I'm always open to suggections.
    Would you mind sharing your settings for your detail machine? even your extrusion settings for calibration? it may get me closer from the start than where I am.

    K
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I can give you an S3D profile if you want.
    The extruder settings are custom to each machine. Just follow this video and see where you get:

     
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  9. momoe

    momoe Member

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    that would be great. do you want to pM it to me or should I pm you my email?
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Painting alone may not remove the visible lines, you may also need to use a filler of some type and/or sanding, which you have already mentioned you are not interested in doing. But any painter will tell you that you cannot mask imperfections in the surface with paint. So if you are looking for smooth both visually and to the touch, then look at technologies that @mark tomlinson mentioned in an earlier post.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I'll attach it here after I get home and have a chance to dig it up. Nothing really fancy just a smaller nozzle, smaller layer heights and slower speeds :)
     
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  13. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    This...I use Tamiya white putty. Sand and paint. Done correctly, surface will be like glass ;)
     
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  14. momoe

    momoe Member

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    wow. how long did that take to print?
     
  15. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    That was actually was not a good example, so remove it. But it took 5 hours total.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. GAmbrosio

    GAmbrosio Active Member

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    I'll post a better one when I get home.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. momoe

    momoe Member

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    wow. how long did that take to print?
    If I do a leadscrew update, will i then use the R1+ firmware going forward?
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Exactly correct. It is an R1+
     
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  19. KTMDirtFace

    KTMDirtFace Well-Known Member

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    Is that true? I think the R1+ has a diffrent main board and you want the "R1 Lead screw update" firmware. Its on the firmware page. you can find it.

    I only say this because I have an R1 with leadscrew update, and I'm pretty sure on the firmware page there is a specific update for the R1 with lead screws which is diffrent from the R1+ firmware.
     
  20. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @KTMDirtFace I looked at the firmware before with @danzca6 and found no functional difference between the lead screw firmware and what robo called V2. He even found a section that is incorrectly coded and might cause issues in certain circumstances. The only significant change was that Robo added a function to auto-start printing the file robo~1.gco if found on the SD card. Hardly a worthwhile 'upgrade'. It is still Marlin 1.0.0.

    Basically what @mark tomlinson said applies, the R1 w/lead screw and the R1+PLUS use exactly the same firmware and there are no differences. Personally I just wouldn't use R1+V2, stick with the original lead screw firmware for both printers.
     
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