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Solved JAM, filament stuck past heatsink

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 19, 2017.

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  1. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    So i have this problem, i had it before but now i cant get it out.
    I send a print and for some reason it started printing too close to the bed. I switched filaments and when it got stucked i removed the hot end of my R1+ to find out that was clogged... i did what i usually do... heat it, grab some twizzlers and pull it out... it was so hard stucked it broke and got like shown in the picture. I removed the nozzle to try to unlocog it from the other side pushing filament... nothing happened, it all melted before and that piece not even moved. I checked for the nozzle and it was fine and clear. Now im more stucked than my RoBo.
    Also in the same thread... i think i messed up my heat break because i didnt remember that it was coming out like the second picture, its that okey ? if not how can i fix it ?. All the assembly and disassembly was made while hot.
    The material is PLA. Thanks guys! IMG_6750.JPG image_123923953.JPG
     
    #1 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 19, 2017
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Your disassembly approach looks fine, but if this is happening often you need to sort out why.
    The filament should not be melted or "plastic" or soft above the heat break (the tiny little tube between the sections).
    If it IS soft up there then your fan is not working correctly (the one mounted directly on the hotend) and that is your problem. You will clog all the time without that fan.
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Jun 19, 2017
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The heat break should be flush into the top of the heater block -- you should thread it in a few more threads. That likely means removing the nozzle. The nozzle does NOT need to be flush against the bottom of the heat break, it just needs to meet up against the bottom of the heat break inside the heater block
     
    #3 mark tomlinson, Jun 19, 2017
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  4. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    Great thx for the help Mark, i will thread a little more the heater block. This doesnt happen very often, in more than a year this is the second time it happened. I still have the filament stuck in there. Any suggestion? since removing the nozzle didnt worked, there is a piece of plastic in the entrance of the heatsink like in picture 1.
     
    #4 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 19, 2017
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Other then removing the heat sink from the heat break and using a hot air gun or a torch to melt it out I do not have a solution for that.
    It should never be that soft up there you must have had massive heat creep issues.
     
    #5 mark tomlinson, Jun 20, 2017
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  6. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    can i disassemble the heatsink from the heatbreak without removing the nozzle? or the procedure is nozzle then the heatsink. All of this allways in hot, assembling and disassembly right?
    Thanks again Mark!
     
    #6 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 21, 2017
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The heatbreak/heatsink nozzle can all be removed individually.
    I would take the nozzle off first since that is easier. The nozzle is what is tightened on hot and, yes, you need loosen it hot.
    Once you get nozzle off the reset will pretty much all come apart quite easily.
     
    #7 mark tomlinson, Jun 21, 2017
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  8. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    Great ! I got a response from Robo3d that says :
    "
    Hi Marcos

    Try heating and then pushing through with something good and stiff that is close to the diameter of the filament like a coat hanger or something similar, but make sure it is heated to at least 210c for pla and 245 for abs.
    make sure you do this with the filament latch pulled all the way back so you can get the best access if you have re-installed it already.

    Regards,"

    I will try your way after trying this, since i just reattached the nozzle and maybe i dont have to remove it again ^^
     
    #8 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 21, 2017
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I am unimpressed :) I would not suggest sticking anything metal into the bore of the hotend from either direction.
    Even a minor scar on that interior, polished bore can make things jam/clog/etc. Don't do it :)
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Jun 21, 2017
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  10. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    okey then... dissasembling everything it is ! hahaha. I dont have the luxury of a mistake since i cant get good replacement where im from :( . So i heat the hotend, then remove the nozzle, while its hot i unscrew the heatsink/heatbreak ? or that i can do it cold? thanks again and im really sorry to annoy you so much with this :oops:
     
    #10 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 21, 2017
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The nozzle is all that needs to be loosened hot. Just break it free. Hold the heater block with one wrench and loosen the nozzle with another. Once it is loose you can cool it all down to work on it. reassemble cold and then heat it up to tighten it snug. Doesn't need a lot of torque.
     
    #11 mark tomlinson, Jun 21, 2017
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  12. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    You have surpassed the limits of awesomeness! Thank you! I will update if everything worked and close it!
     
    #12 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 21, 2017
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  13. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    So i did the disassembly of the hotend... i removed the nozzle and it looks unobstructed. I have some doubts about the heatbreak/heatblock part... its really stucked in there and i have almost no place to use the wrench. I am scared to break something.
    Here are some photos of my current state. Quoting Homer:
    "I'm normally not a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, SuperMark" IMG_6766.JPG IMG_6768.JPG IMG_6769.JPG IMG_6773.JPG IMG_6774.JPG
     
    #13 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 21, 2017
  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If you get it hot (remove the heater and thermistor) it should come off pretty easily. Just beware there may be a set screw holding the cold end to the threaded heatbreak that goes into the heaterblock. Where are you located?
     
    #14 Geof, Jun 22, 2017
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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    @Geof nailed it. If you remove the two electrical bits (heater and thermistor) you can heat it in an oven and melt away the plastic. It will also probably come apart the rest of the way once the plastic melts. It is most likely the melted plastic inside of it that is keeping it from turning easy (and you do NOT want to put a lot of torque on it).

    I use a small convection oven and run it at 450-500 F and that will melt the PLA away. In fact I bought a Walmart special $30 one just for that sort of thing. I once did something silly on our delta and printed with the E3D poorly assembled* and plastic melted all over the entire hotend... I was able to clean it up with the little convection oven (and that was cheaper than a new E3D)


    *Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from BAD judgement :)
     
    #15 mark tomlinson, Jun 22, 2017
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  16. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    Thanks for your replies guys ! Im in Argentina ^^ far south of the continent haha. I managed to remove both , thermistor and heater should i remove al the screws before cooking it ? i feel so dumb asking so many questions. After it melts i put everything back together the same way ? reassembly, get it hot and tighthen while hot? thanks so much guys !
     
    #16 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 22, 2017
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Just remove the electrical bits, the rest can stay.
    You are correct, just reassemble it the same way you took it apart. Then get it hot and make sure the nozzle is snug.
     
    #17 mark tomlinson, Jun 22, 2017
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  18. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    I forgot i had an allen like tool that came with the R1+ that fits perfectly trough the hole. It worked like wonders ! im gonna let it cool and reassembly ! PM me with your adress guys so i know where to send the beers hahaha you are awesome people !
    i will leave this open if i have some proble reassembling and if not i will close the thread with a picture of my baby working =D
     
    #18 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 22, 2017
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  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Good job! Glad to hear you got it sorted. Be very careful reassembling as the thermistor wires LOVE to break.
     
    #19 Geof, Jun 22, 2017
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  20. Marcos Zuccaro

    Marcos Zuccaro New Member

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    Hey guys ! MR annoying here again !...Hmmm i manage to put everything back together but even hot i cant finish tightening the nozzle.
    here is a picture of what i have so far.. i dindt wanted to put torque on it. Im really close to visit the states again and bring me back 2 or 3 spares of everything so i can stop being so chicken haha! Any advice? unnamed (1).jpg
     
    #20 Marcos Zuccaro, Jun 23, 2017
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