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Unresolved KEENOVO Silicone Heater Upgrade - R1+

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Ender, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯
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    3/16" would be totally fine, 1/4" is just overly thick. Can it work? Sure, but it is heavy as sin and really not needed.
     
  2. Ender

    Ender Member

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    Well I just installed 6mm borosilicate glass, and it shattered on the first cycle to 90C!

    So not even tempered glass can withstand the temperatures.

    I also followed the guide linked earlier in this thread on how to install the SSR. The OP of that guide did not use the heat sink. So I chose not to use it too. BAD DECISION! It is burnt up! I do not think it was a wiring issue.

    I am so irritated right now because I am following these guides and nothing is working as they say.
     
    #22 Ender, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ¯\_(⊙︿⊙)_/¯
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    Again, as far as I know yours is the largest heater install I have heard of. The largest I know has been done is 300W.
    Yours is not going to match any other install in terms of current it needs or anything.

    It is not the temperature that is causing the issue (I have normal plate glass I run at 110c) it is the rapid heating of the glass that is causing the breakage. If it were to heat slower it would likely be fine.

    Nothing works as they say because you are not doing the same thing :)
    You have more than double the wattage and that is a huge difference.
     
  4. Ender

    Ender Member

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    I AM USING 300W!! I have said this 3 times.
     
  5. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    You have to be careful with SSRs as there are a lot of counterfeit ones all over the internet, even sold on Amazon and especially eBay.
    I did 240W and it wasn't an issue but I used an aluminum build plate then a $5 piece of picture frame glass on top of it.
     
  6. Ender

    Ender Member

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    I am starting to wondering if the switch in the SSR burnt up and just opened the flood gates and the bed is heating up too fast. The temperature reading doesn't seem to show that it is heating up too fast.

    First thing I will do is check the PSU to make sure I am getting the correct voltage.

    If that is good, then it has to be the wiring, counterfeit unit, or it is getting too hot.

    Does this unit look legit Waldo? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0753R568W/ref=cm_cr_ryp_prd_ttl_sol_9
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    I don't know about that particular one, I used a Fotek and I know that if there isn't a small triangular cut in the bottom corner of the label it is fake. But some fakes also cut the corner off. The cheapest ones that ship from China are probably fake too, so I usually buy with Amazon Prime only since I can return it if it is fake.

    http://www.fotek.com.hk/page1e.htm You need an SSR rated for 25A continuous minimum. And it has to be DC to DC voltage. You can find 25A and 40A, If I was running a 25A at its max I would want one with those huge heatsinks attached. There are other companies that make them also.

    Just as a point of perspective, an American made SSR will cost you somewhere between $40 - $150 in the power range you need, so consider that information when buying a Chinese made SSR.
     
  8. Ender

    Ender Member

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    The one in the link is a Fotek with the corner cut rated for 40A. The max my PSU can provide is 30A and the max the bed should pull is 25A. Everything should be plenty good as far as I can tell.

    The original SSR I ordered had 4 stars on amazon and it still burnt up. Still don’t know if it was heat, underrated components, or bad wiring.

    This is the craziest statement I have ever heard. Nobody in there right mind is going to pay $40-$150 (which is a HUGE range in price) for something that is all over the internet for $8-$15.
     
  9. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    @Ender My statement was to just show you that Made in America parts command those prices, look at key electronics distributors such as Mouser, Digikey, Allied, etc. and that is where the prices are. Amazon almost always sells Asian made goods as the prices are much lower, just beware when you buy them, that is all.

    Exception, many companies building industrial systems will pay those prices because they will be more reliable or have guarantees of working to spec. I was not suggesting you buy one of those.

    A second point, even though I used a heater that required 20A (as opposed to your 25A) I used a Chinese made 40A DC/DC SSR. Just to make sure I under-rated it myself.
     
  10. Ender

    Ender Member

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    What would your guess be, too hot, counterfeit, or bad wiring?

    NOTE: the right side of the SSR in the picture is the load side.
     

    Attached Files:

    #30 Ender, Dec 6, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    My guess would be counterfeit, but that is just a guess. From my research counterfeit SSRs tend to put the circuit in some sort of opaque potting material so you cannot see what the components used are. It is definitely burned as if it were using under-rated parts. then once burned you would have a direct short giving the bed full power with no way to control it until power is cut off. The picture looks like a catastrophic failure.

    Did you smell anything burning or was it kind of instant?
     
  12. Ender

    Ender Member

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    I did smell some burning but only when I shoved my nose right up against the machine. The smell got worst as time went on though. And this is what it looked like after two cycles to 90C. I do not know what it looked like after it hit 90C the first time.

    Another option I thought about is that the heater is not built to spec and it is pulling more than 25A.
     
  13. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    Could be, but in general Keenovo is pretty well respected in the 3d printer community. You don't get that respect selling out of spec products. I still suspect a shady SSR built with under-rated parts.
     
  14. Ender

    Ender Member

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    I got the new bed and SSR installed.

    I started the PID loop in MatterControl using the show terminal feature.

    M303 E-1 C8 S70

    I enter that command and the bed heated up to 88C before I decided to unplug the machine. I took the bottom off and the SSR is quite hot if I touch the heat sink.

    So shouldn't the bed only heat to 70C, and then cool back off and repeat 8 times? And from what others are saying, it shouldn't get that hot either.

    I did a quick run to 40C before I started the PID loop and I watched the SSR turn on and off while maintaining that temp. So it seems to be working.
     
  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    Yes it should only go to the specified temperature, 8 iterations at 70°C. Out of curiosity can you upload your Configuration.h?
     
  16. Ender

    Ender Member

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    I think another SSR just got burned up . I set the bed to 50C and it just keep rising, turned the machine off at 58C.

    Now the bed will heat continuously whenever I turn the power on to the machine and the light on the SSR does not come on.

    I just do not understand....

    Forgive me and my stupid question, but how should I upload it? Copy and paste it?
     
    #36 Ender, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    ZIP or RAR it all by itself, then you can attach it as a file using the Upload a File button.

    Are you trying to run a 25A heater with an SSR with a maximum rating of 25A?

    On the R1 when you are testing the extruder still works normally, without heating the bed?
     
  18. Ender

    Ender Member

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    The SSR is rated for 40A..

    As soon as I turn on the machine the bed heats. I will unplug it and try to heat the extruder. Last time I tried to heat the extruder it worked.
     
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo ☚ (<‿<)☚
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    Something is wrong then, I bet you have a couple of wires plugged in incorrectly. The only thing that should start automagically when you turn it on is the fan behind the hotend cold zone heatsink. Everything else should be off unless you specifically issue a command to turn it on.

    That fan should run at 100% power 100% of the time.
     
  20. Ender

    Ender Member

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    The first test I ran right after the upgrade, the bed heated to 40C and I watched the SSR turn off and on while maintaining that temp. Everything worked just fine.

    I then ran the PID tuning command, the bed heated up to 88(and rising) instead of the commanded 70 so I turned the machine off.

    Now when I turn the machine on, the bed starts heating, and the SSR light does not light up. So the wiring should be good, it worked once before.

    But here is a picture you can verify with.
     

    Attached Files:

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