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New bed leveling idea..

Discussion in 'Projects' started by CdRsKuLL, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. CdRsKuLL

    CdRsKuLL Member

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    I've been thinking about bed leveling and how it's done on the R2 and was wondering why it's done like this and not different.

    It's my understanding you first level the bed to make sure it's somewhere close to where it needs to be by using the z offset paper and adjusting each screw in turn. This gives you a square bed to the x / y axis.

    My idea is to write a bit of code that does the following..
    Homes the bed, then moves it down by say 10mm
    It then moves the head to say point 30,30 and moves the bed up until the autolevel sensor is triggered.
    It does this for each corner and then goes back to the first corner and tells you if it needs adjusting down or up. It uses the autolevel sensor trigger to tell you when it's reached the correct point, maybe by a red / green indicator on the screen? So it tells you which way to turn the screw until the colour changes to green.

    Don't even know if this is possible but I'm happy to look into it. Has anything been done similar at all?

    Thanks,

    Steve
     
  2. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    There is already a mechanism in Marlin that is a fantastic leveling scheme, it is called Uniform Bed Leveling (UBL) it is a basically one and done leveling. it is just disabled in the R2/C2 firmware. I use it myself and haven't leveled my bed in over 100 prints and it produces a perfect first layer every time.

    Not sure there is much reason to go to all the effort you are describing to have something you still use for every single print. This is just my honest opinion.

    BTW, there is already a UBL enabled version of Marlin for the Robo on this forum.
     
  3. CdRsKuLL

    CdRsKuLL Member

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    Hi WheresWaldo,

    Is that the mesh level thing in Marlin? I have looked at it but I thought that's when you don't have an autolevel sensor and you then recall / load the mesh you generated every time before it prints. For this you still need to semi-level your bed still to make sure it's true to your x/y axis to start with. It's this bit I'm on about using the autosensor for.

    Should be getting my R2 next week so will start to have a play then.

    Steve
     
  4. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    No, MESH is old and will eventually be deprecated, UBL is the future of Marlin. Yes you have to level it once, test, adjust then do it at least one more time. After that no more need to level. I would just like to see someone as excited as you are focus on things that would really help day to day or to make the R2 worth the cost they charge, rather than things of limited appeal or value.

    I don't work for Robo, and neither do any of the other VOLUNTEER admins here, so I can say what I feel with little holding back. I am not beholden to Robo for anything. I think the R2 is a fantastic piece of hardware crippled by software that is less than adequate. Marlin itself offers features underutilized in RoboOS. there are things the rPi and OctoPrint can do that are underutilized also. At least for me, that is where I try to focus when I make modifications to my own R2.

    Love the LCD upgrade, going to do that one myself.
     
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  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yep. I suspect it needs rechecking after hotend work, but assuming you don't change anything it should just be fine even then. At most perhaps an offset tweak.
     
  6. CdRsKuLL

    CdRsKuLL Member

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    Thanks, I've had a bit of a read on UBL, like you said it's the next step. I'll have a look into it a bit more when I get a chance.

    Regarding the level routine, I think the R2 is capable of doing something better than the piece of paper trick, yes it might only be used if you move the machine about and in the first setup, but it's the whole user experience that counts. I'm also happy to help where I can, I know I'm a late starter here so any ideas on improvements that can be made, if I can help I certainly will.

    Thanks,
     
  7. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    It is still a manufacturing machine, unless you have sensors all over the place, there is little that can be done to automate the entire process. It just doesn't work that way in manufacturing. A 3D printer is NOT a printer, it is NOT plug & play. It has similar setup requirements to a lathe or CNC mill, rather than the simplicity of a laser printer. Unless you plan on investing a considerable sum of money in "upgrades" then I don't think you are going to really improve on the leveling already provided by base Marlin. If the point of buying an R2 was to spend hundreds more to get it to do everything in the world then perhaps your money is better spent on any other machine that already delivers on those promises.

    I think that the reason you see the talking head shills on YouTube give Robo unflattering reviews, is not because of the hardware, it is RoboOS that leaves much to be desired. Everything from the whole µSD card image being kludged together to add-ons that spy on your printer and report back (without documentation or the ability to opt out), to use of OSS without crediting contributors or without providing current source code (the last two refer to selective source availability). I personally tried to contribute suggestions and bugs to Robo but they do not appear to be interested in actually making the experience better, I am not a YT Influencer or a review writer, I can easily be set aside. It will always be about where the next round of funding is coming from, or when the next release will be, not so much about improving what was yesterday's news.

    Sorry, I am done ranting now.

    I do want to add, that I loved my R1 and I love my R2 also. Of course I think there is room for improvements. Real world improvements that actually increase the power of this printer, not dumb things like ambient lighting sensor adjustments during auto-leveling (which doesn't work like they say it does). New extruder, new dual extruder upgrades (supposedly in Beta as we speak), better software control. Those are things that can take good hardware and make it a good to better 3D printer.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That is just a very rough way to get the Z offset close enough to fine-tune it. The R2/C2 bed leveling wizard actually does a decent job of this. You do need to do both steps (Z offset wizard and fine-tuning wizard) and it actually prints test lines for you to look at an evaluate as it goes along. This is more or less what UBL is doing by having you sample the bed in multiple places and then calculate the level plane (and any area adjustments internal to that, which is far better than the original ABL which stopped at a level plane).

    I think once you get your hands on one and actually see how it interacts throw this you will have a better idea of how to make it better :)
     
  9. tkoco

    tkoco Administrator
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    What would it take to get a UBL working Marlin installed on the R2? And assuming that you could do so, would installing that firmware upgrade break the Robo software?
     
  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    1. There is a version that works already posted in the forums.
    2. Yes, it breaks the Robo software (specifically the leveling wizard), because it does not support the really stupid addition of G35/G36 that Robo was deceived into thinking was a good idea.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Of course if you are going with UBL you care not about that wizard I imagine.
     
  12. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Just an example, I hadn't printed anything on my R2 is over two months. But this week I needed an rPi case, CC2531 Sniffer cover, electronics box for a CC2531+CC2591 with step-down transformer. All printed flawlessly with only homing enabled.

    Exactly, I never use that wizard, but I still think it is stupid.
     

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