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Pogo Pins... Again.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Seamus, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Seamus

    Seamus Member

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    <mumble, grumble...>
    I just put in a request for a new pogo-pin board. Again.
    Known, issue, known solution.
    I even know exactly what I want to do to fix it for good, but considering the other issues I've had with it, I'm trying very hard to be good and avoid making any permanent modifications that would void the warranty until such time as it expires.
    Don't get me wrong - I'm still quite happy with my R2.
    It just has a couple of persistent little annoying quirks that keep cropping up, sort of the equivalent of a gimpy knee (and believe me, I _know_ about gimpy knees).
    I don't know if it will go anywhere, but I also requested information on acquiring an additional replacement board as well, so I can keep printing when the _next_ one fails, and I'm waiting for that replacement to come.
    Maybe I can see if I can pull a couple of the good pins off of my first board and graft them onto the newly-failed second board.....?
    At least this time it didn't fail in the middle of a critical print job.
    <mumble, grumble>
     
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  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I'd love to see Robo bypass that with a direct connection heatbed. I understand people want to remove the bed...but ya know what...I think I'd perfer it just work :D Hope they get you sorted soon
     
  3. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    A quick disconnect wire harness would work the same way. Allow removing of the bed /build plate and still have a good connection. I have used PCIE connectors to achieve similar functionality.
     
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  4. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Or they could mod the bed to hold glass like mine, then you get both. ;) Or they could use aluminosilicate beds.
     
  5. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Honestly, I think either C2/R2 could use the capability to have multiple beds. You replace Bed1 with Bed2, toggle something in the interface or select the new bed from a pull-down, start the next print and then work on your part.

    Bed1 might be the stock part on the R2. Bed2 might have a molex/JST/whatever connector which bypasses the POGOs. If you could create a short Y-adapter which goes inline to the existing bed, you might not void your warranty—this would be the interface for the newly-added plug.
     
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Sure you can do that. Buy another bed. print finishes pull your bed out, put the new one in. Seems pricey to me :D
     
  7. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    A guy needs to fall back to the stock print bed while he's dorking around with the heated bed upgrade he's working on.
     
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    call em, they'll sell you a 2nd bed.
     
  9. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    It's on its way. Ordered that weeks ago.
     
  10. Kilrah

    Kilrah Well-Known Member

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    Really if they implemented my solution "cleanly" (with a PCB maybe) they'd keep the best of both worlds.

    It's funny because when I initially saw the R2 design I immediately told myself "awesome, magnetic corner pads that make for an easy removal and at the same time double as heated bed power connections, clever design"... but nope, THEY didn't think of that and made the broken pogo thing instead.
     
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  11. Seamus

    Seamus Member

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    UPDATE:
    I received a reply to my email, and a replacement pogo-pin adapter board is on the way.
    The tech indicated that this seemed strange - that this was the first replacement board he'd seen fail (guess I'm just special that way).

    Actually, while investigating the issue, I noticed that the contact points on the positive heater trace had scorched the pad a bit. In cleaning it off, I realized that there had actually been a bit of trace erosion at the points of contact as well, indicating that there had likely been some arcing as the springs weakened and contact became intermittent.
    Obviously, a new pogo board will just make contact in the same spot, further aggravating the situation, so it's going to need a thin flow of solder to repair the pitting before I put it all back together.

    I had previously contacted them to inquire about purchasing a second printbed assembly, but they indicated that they weren't available. Maybe I'll hit them up again, and if I can get one, wire up a bed with a harness that saves time and trouble by bypassing all of this pogo-pin nonsense...
    scorched_and_pitted.jpg
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, we need to develop a mod that removes them from the equation. Much like swapping to Anderson powerpoles (or Deans connectors or the like) for the removable bed on the R1 series. Is it as elegant a solution? No, but it would work.


    I get the attraction to something like the Pogo pins -- it is really easy on the user (when it works of course). I still think a dedicated, distinct connector is a better solution.
     
    #12 mark tomlinson, Sep 14, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  13. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Believe it or not a lot of cellular phones use pogo pins especially the ones that have some circuitry on the back cover, such as wireless charging pads or antennas. It is not a bad technology. Pogo pins are also used on most modern (current) Intel processors (LGA packaging). But this may not have been the best implementation to use pogo pins. I may look at this myself after I do the E3Dv6 upgrade to see if there are better ways to implement the swapable build platforms.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Member

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    Oh, absolutely - pogo pins are great.
    ...in the right applications, with the right implementation.

    I'm just not entirely certain that is is either or both.

    The problem in this case is that they're trying to pass a ton of current through the relatively thin path of conductance of just a couple of pins, in a high-vibration situation, where good contact can't be assured. Granted, they're acknowledging this at least somewhat, in that they're doubling up on the power pogos, just like they're tripling up on the headers that connect to the pogo board. Unfortunately, it's becoming fairly evident that even with 'high current' pogos, which may be nominally rated for the current they're passing, the "connectorless" bed design is proving to be somewhat unreliable.

    Now, don't get me wrong - generally speaking, I'm really enjoying my R2, and there are a lot of design features that I really like. Right now, the pogo bed connection is really my only gripe with the machine. Even my previous issue with the power supply fan was made right quickly for my specific case, and it looks like they've found an even more permanent fix in a fanless supply for new units. The company has been quite responsive both times I've had to contact them about the pogo-pin issue. It's just... you know... that "both times" bit. It's more of an annoyance, if even that, as it's just a bit of unplanned downtime - not like it's interrupting an important print job (this time). It's being taken care of, and I have a plan to fix it right good if it _does_ become a problem.

    It'll be up and running again soon enough.
     
  15. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    I had the weird case of the springs were strong enough to push the bed out of level on that back corner. It was driving me nuts to the point that Robo was going to send me new parts. I had not yet tried the glass on it since it was not level, I said well while waiting on parts I am going to throw the glass on. That extra weight was all it needed and the back corner seated fully on the magnet.

    I do want to take the bed apart so I can mod in a better solution for holding down the glass. If I pull off the metal covers that just hide the screws, I think that will give me enough room to fashion a quick release. Then I can swap glass beds in and out without pulling the whole bed. I hate the 10-minute heat up period to reach 70C, so I try to remove one print and get the machine going again before it cools down. I do keep waiting for my Pogo pins to have some sort of failure.

    My bed contacts are showing signs of wear and pitting across each point.
     
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  16. OutsourcedGuru

    OutsourcedGuru Active Member

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    Under higher current, an arcing contact just corrodes, raises the resistance for the contact, weakens the inch or so of wire near it. It just spirals itself to death basically. I wish I could find a photo of one of the power outlets at work.

    The cellphone application for pogo pins works because the back of the phone has those nice, well-behaved slots so that the back doesn't push too much or too little. A print bed sitting on top pogo pins needs pivoting clamps or mondo-sized magnets to hold it. Or, smear the contacts with a hot mess of that electric-promoting goo that you can use. I'll try to find a link.

    Here you go.
     

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