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Solved Power Supply or Arduino?

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Perry Genovese, Jan 8, 2017.

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  1. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    That seriously sounds like the fan that cools the ramps board. I strongly urge you to replace that fan ( I know we talked and think its working but if swapping the fans doesn't help you have jacked board :D )

    The only time i've ever seen that kind of behavior is from an overheated ramps/arduino (ramps)
     
  2. Perry Genovese

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    I just slid a piece of paper under there and it sucked it right up. The RAMPS all have heatsinks on them as well. Every upgrade I have ever found was already done on this R1+ lol...which is making this very frustrating for me to solve. I did just order a E3D all metal V6 since I can't find a cheapo thermistor I'll switch it all out. hell I almost just order another printer but calmed myself down. But Geof I do want something more substantial....those new replicators look nice
     
  3. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    replicator? .... Makerbot? Gross...

    Swap the fan with the part cooling fan just for giggles. I really think there is a cooling issue there or the board itself is just fried.
     
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  4. Perry Genovese

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    I'm feeling like the board is fried...thats another $70 experiment
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The generic RAMPS/Arduino are soo much cheaper.
    I wish Robo had stayed with them.
    You could replace all the electronics for <$50 then.

    Worth considering @Geof thread on replacing the custom RAMPS with a generic one if it is dead.
     
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  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If its an r1+ i have a factory board. Send me a pm with ship to info. Its new.
     
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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  8. Perry Genovese

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    I need to give a massive shout out to Geof for helping me offline a ton and Mark for being ultra responsive. So I basically have a new printer now :) joking.

    So given the symptoms we started by replacing the power supply. Everything seems to run quieter now but that did not solve it.

    So we focused in on the hot end and since I couldn't find a thermistor anywhere I went ahead and did the E3DV6 upgrade. Very easy and plenty of instructions and help already on the forum if you search. But it really was easy. but alas it did not solve my total blackout crashing problem.

    So that left the bed .... so I ran it until I got it to fail which was easy...then I quickly disabled the bed heater, re-sliced, and started the print again....thought process being if I could lay down a good 1st layer I could see how far it would go without the bed heater. The result was it ran fine without the bed heater and I even managed to print a proper quick disconnect spacer and new fan shroud :)

    What to do what to do .... well the gentleman that he is Geof sent me a New spare RAMPS/Arduino board he had that he had never used. it arrived today and I am pleased to say it is up and running smoothly again.

    So while I replaced a bunch of stuff not needing it I ended up with a much better set up. The power supply seems to be night and day. The E3DV6 hotend speaks for itself. And the main culprit is now new and I will say I added a 2nd fan on it for good measure just to be sure.

    I still do not know what happened to the board but see the attached pic at the burned connector I found when I removed the old board. Also attaching the new quick disconnect spacer and fan shroud I managed to print with PETG while trouble shooting it.

    So again special thanks to Geof for al the offline support and quick responses....and also Mark for quickly pointing me in the right direction and never leaving me hanging. Thanks guys
     

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  9. mark tomlinson

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    The burned connector is a common symptom of the RAMPS failing.
    It is the heatbed connector and that draws 11amps if it is working correctly.
    The connector is rated at (barely) 12 amps. so ... if the heater starts to pull more you can see what happens :)
    If the heater starts to pull a LOT more then the polyfuse on the RAMPS will trip and shut it down, but it is more common for the bed to just be slightly too much and eventually kill the MOSFET that drives that channel.

    This is not really a Robo specific problem as many RepRap style printers that use the ArduinoRamps combo with bed heaters will experience it. The best solution is to have the RAMPS booard drive a 12v relay that switches power to the bed heater.
     
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  10. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    This is how I have set my Robo up, the RAMPS board only drives a SSR (solid state relay). Since the relay draws so little amperage there is no worries that even in the event or a heated bed failure that the RAMPS board will burn up. Another benefit it that you can use a bigger heater (both larger in size and in wattage) on your Robo bed. A basic relay will work but you must use the default Bang-Bang method of controlling the bed heat (full on / full off). With a quality SSR you can actually PID control the bed heat for more stable and accurate heating.
     
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  11. Perry Genovese

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    Any write-ups out there guys on this?
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I do not think there is a specific project thread for this (you could be the one to write it!)

    There is some discussion in this thread:

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/time-for-aluminum-bed.9189

    And really, it is not difficult.
    Relay input goes to RAMPS heated bed output (needs to be a 12vdc input relay, output can be anything really although it will be switching 12vdc as well)
    Relay contacts go inline between the heated bed wiring and the power supply 12v

    Alter firmware to use BangBang mode if you use a regular mechanical relay and no need if you use an SSR (although a PID tune would be advised which does mean a bit of firmware editing).

    That is pretty much it.
     
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  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    surprisingly I've never done this! (though I am still using the OEM heater without issue ... so far). only burned up that proprietary ramps board in the R1+, after swapping to generics I havent had the issue again. Of course that doesn't mean I dont have a bucket of spare ramps boards just in case lol
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Sad thing is that I have two (old now) beta units with the original (presumably flammable) wiring and neither one has had a failure.
    If so I will do it and create a project with pictures :) I am just too occupied to want to take down a printer long enough to do it just to be doing it...
     
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  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    My suggestion is to use an SSR and not a relay. The relay will click on and off over and over as it tries to maintain the temperature. The clicking can get rather annoying. Plus using PID to control the heated bed is much more precise.

    Fotek SSR-25DD, make sure it is a DD and not a DA, is what is commonly used.
    Amazon search Be careful who you buy from some may be fake
    eBay search Be careful who you buy from some may be fake
    Banggood This is the one I am currently using.​
     
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  16. Perry Genovese

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    so this does seem pretty easy. Relay is a piece of cake. As usual finding resources for the code drives me nuts.

    If I understand it correctly the ROBO is already PID enabled so its a matter of tuning it by adjusting the 3 K's. And one theoretically can run PID Auto tune, get the K figs and input them back into the firmware and flash it. But where the heck do you run the M303 code to get the results?
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The Robo does not use Bed PID by default, you have to enable it in Configuration.h then do the PID auto tune from a terminal window connected to your printer (MatterControl has one).

    As I mentioned in the previous post, if you use a regular 12v relay then PID doesn't work and you could damage the relay. PID for the heated bed will only work with the heater directly connected to the RAMPS or through as SSR like the one linked above.
     
  18. Perry Genovese

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    yeah I get the relay and know the difference there don;t worry. I'm more of a dummy with code nuances. Got it on the matter control terminal...wondered what good that was lol :)

    Here is what is in my config.h file:

    #ifdef PIDTEMPBED
    //120v 250W silicone heater into 4mm borosilicate (MendelMax 1.5+)
    //from FOPDT model - kp=.39 Tp=405 Tdead=66, Tc set to 79.2, aggressive factor of .15 (vs .1, 1, 10)
    #define DEFAULT_bedKp 10.00
    #define DEFAULT_bedKi .023
    #define DEFAULT_bedKd 305.4

    //120v 250W silicone heater into 4mm borosilicate (MendelMax 1.5+)
    //from pidautotune
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKp 97.1
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKi 1.41
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKd 1675.16

    // FIND YOUR OWN: "M303 E-1 C8 S90" to run autotune on the bed at 90 degreesC for 8 cycles.
    #endif // PIDTEMPBED
     
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    There is a line above that that says
    Code:
    //#define PIDBEDTEMP
    you need to remove the comment
    Code:
    #define PIDBEDTEMP
    You also need to have the three DEFAULT_bedK lines enabled with the proper numbers inserted.
     
  20. Perry Genovese

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    so starting here remove // from the 1st line and then plug in the results from auto tune into the default lines of the 2nd section below also removing the // from those 3 lines:

    //#define PIDTEMPBED
    //
    //#define BED_LIMIT_SWITCHING

    // This sets the max power delivered to the bed, and replaces the HEATER_BED_DUTY_CYCLE_DIVIDER option.
    // all forms of bed control obey this (PID, bang-bang, bang-bang with hysteresis)
    // setting this to anything other than 255 enables a form of PWM to the bed just like HEATER_BED_DUTY_CYCLE_DIVIDER did,
    // so you shouldn't use it unless you are OK with PWM on your bed. (see the comment on enabling PIDTEMPBED)
    #define MAX_BED_POWER 255 // limits duty cycle to bed; 255=full current

    #ifdef PIDTEMPBED
    //120v 250W silicone heater into 4mm borosilicate (MendelMax 1.5+)
    //from FOPDT model - kp=.39 Tp=405 Tdead=66, Tc set to 79.2, aggressive factor of .15 (vs .1, 1, 10)
    #define DEFAULT_bedKp 10.00
    #define DEFAULT_bedKi .023
    #define DEFAULT_bedKd 305.4

    //120v 250W silicone heater into 4mm borosilicate (MendelMax 1.5+)
    //from pidautotune
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKp 97.1
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKi 1.41
    // #define DEFAULT_bedKd 1675.16

    // FIND YOUR OWN: "M303 E-1 C8 S90" to run autotune on the bed at 90 degreesC for 8 cycles.
    #endif // PIDTEMPBED
     
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