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Print Adhesion - My new PrintinZ

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by rapid, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. rapid

    rapid New Member

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    Hello all,

    I just wanted to upload some photos on here of the PrintinZ Plate i have long ordered, but just getting around to using.

    I hope this helps both as a review as well as a solution to lifty-prints and messy glue-stuck print beds.

    In one of the pictures is included the size of the clips used to hold the plate firmly to the print bed. It was quite a hassle to get them on and i suggest being careful and patient when doing so. Also, it is best to remove the clip handles because Robo simply doesn't have enough side or under clearance to accommodate those "handles" (Looking for the right word for handles). Also, the size of the clips is so important that if they are too small or too big, they graze the screws underneath the plate. The size i have used is just perfect enough to miss those screws and not interfere with plate movement during printing. The extruder assembly also misses the clips nicely especially during auto-leveling when it comes close to the print-area boundary.

    Please follow as much as possible, the instructions for the use of the plate found here. This plate has a wicked grip on my PLA filaments. I am currently using the PolyMax PLA from Polymakr which i received from them on their kickstarter.
    After i accidentally canceled a print, i found out the hard way to turn the bed temperature down, down, down!

    I am currently using 45 degrees Celsius for bed temperature and 200 degrees C for the extruder with fan at 100% from the 1st layer, although i am still compelled to use the Robo supplied spatula to ease the prints off.

    Do consider setting the bed temperature to OFF or Zero after say the 4th or 5th layers of a print job has been printed or laid down (I use simplify 3D) so that the prints do not adhere too severely and they become ready for removal immediately after each print without need for the recommended cooling time.

    I will experiment on still reducing the bed heat temp further and wondering if the bed needs heating at all with this plate. The plate is very heat conductive when fastened well.

    So far i have not had a need to remove the plate after each print, i just yank or spatula the prints off gently.

    I will add more observations as I experience them. But all in all, this plate solves my problem especially of messy glue-sticking.

    I highly recommend it! 5 out of 5 stars!!

    Thanks.
     

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    #1 rapid, Apr 25, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
    Mike Kelly likes this.
  2. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    ROBO bed is maxed at 230 by 270 (or even more depending on how smart you are) so 300x300 plate they sell for $105 will cover it all.
    Too much money for limited use hobby toy.
    $20 maybe, not $105 is way over the roof.
     
  3. cosber

    cosber Active Member

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    Don't know about the plate, and everyone probably knows this but I can't recall ever seeing a post with this tip. My prints stick so hard, I have to wait at least an hour for the bed to cool before I can pull it off. My impatience caused me to chip the bed by prying off a print before it's time. I'm wondering though, since the print pops off so easily after the bed cools, isn't there a danger of it moving during a long print, especially one that has a small footprint?
     
  4. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    ABS ? Agree.
    PLA does not need hot bed, it actually prints better on cold surface such as blue painters tape #2090.


    Its funny that such expensive product would have catastrophic requirement for ABS prints.
    ABS needs to be hot as long as the heat can crawl its way up the model keeping it from shrinking.
    IF you have to turn it off at layer 4/5 then this product is trash for ABS.

    I only print PLA (lots of trash prints) and i would benefit from this plate but not at that price.

    Right now new 3d printing is coming up. Totally different then what we all think about so not to hurry to spend money on junk.
    Instead start saving some GRANDS for a
    Carbon3D printer
     
    #4 tonycstech, Apr 26, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2015
  5. cosber

    cosber Active Member

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    When you say it prints better on a cold surface, in what way?
     
  6. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    it sticks better to cold tape then hot tape. Thats why so many people dont think blue tape is good solution for PLA, because they heat it up.
    I dont even wipe that thing with alcohol to make it stick, just print on cold tape. Cooler=better but hotter nozzle.

    PLA needs cooling as much as you can get to prevent curling/warping/etc, ABS is the opposite, it needs heat to fight all of those.
    So it makes total sense to have cool bed for PLA rather then hot.

    While back i was printing straight on the bed but i would apply "American Crew" hair gel and heat up bed up to 70-80.
    When it cools down to 40 after print is finished, model just slides of the bed as if i just placed on top of it instead of printed it out. Absolutely no sticking.
    It was great way to print but it was messy because i would have to clean up gel after few uses as well as bed temperatures were a time factor so i decided to screw it all and just use good old blue tape on cold bed.
    For extreme stick i'd wipe it with alcohol. But because of low sticking property of the tape it was the slicers job to make it work. Slicer would need to create retractions when nozzle moves from perimeter to perimeter, otherwise filament gets dragged and does not get perfect initial contact.
    I didnt write a book on PLA, but am sure i would if i wasnt lazy.
     
  7. cosber

    cosber Active Member

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    Since my bed is chipped, I was going to start using tape again. I'm very pleased with my prints, except for the tops of domed objects. Those are awful. I have to use infill to get them to come out with a solid top, even though I'd like them to be hollow. I've turned up the shell and number of top layers, etc. without much improvement. Does the heat from the bed transfer through the layers, possibly causing the bad tops? I'd try it myself, but my printer is having major problems and I have to take it in for repairs.
     
  8. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Heat does transfer thru layers, but not much. I'd say at about 20mm up mark loss will be around 60% so after that its little help (talking ABS)
    That is because ROBO is open platform rather then closed, otherwise heat would crawl up much higher stabilizing the prints (ABS) even better.

    ROBO is more PLA friendly then ABS in that perspective.

    Allot of print success is slicer. I recommend CURA to all.
    Give me link to your model so i can try to print it and see results my self.
    Will post when done for you to see.
     
  9. cosber

    cosber Active Member

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  10. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Will post results in under an hr if it finishes as expected.
    I am printing at fast speeds (since not mechanical or even use for me at all) at 150% of 70mm/sec or 105mm/s
    My extruder is complitely different setup that i redesigned and printed. Its gives me more print room and speeds beyond imaginable with pretty good quality.
     
  11. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    1Hr22 mins.
    Dont worry about gradual color change, i use my own made filament.
    Glossiness also changes when i went from fast to slow toward the top, it started to curl too much because stock cooling fan is not enough so i had to drop down to 50% speed for few last layers.
    Cant print on air as you can see on a picture where part is split, but it was doable.
    DSC00003.JPG DSC00006.JPG DSC00007.JPG DSC00008.JPG
     
  12. cosber

    cosber Active Member

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    So you think slowing it down is the answer or does your come out better because of all the mods you've done?
     
  13. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Slowing down helps fighting PLA curling up because (in this case) it prints at the very edge (almost on air) and cooling is not powerful enough to freeze it in place, so slowing down only help to cool thus making it less likely to curl.

    Speed has many effects. You can see that top part of my model is more glossy then other (dont mind the color shade), this is indication of melting time.
    You can print slow at 200c or fast at 230c and see no difference, but if you print 230c slow, you will see that printed object is more shiny compared to fast print.
    This is because filament did not get hot enough while going thru the nozzle.
    When you print to fast and see model is not glossy (unless your PLA is a regrind garbage), you are very likely to run into layer separation problem but not because of the speed or temp, because filament did not have enough time to heat up in the nozzle as it passes thru, so theories about "you gotta change this or that" is not entirely true, both factors are in effect.
    Its the exiting filament temperature rather then speed or nozzle temperatures alone. That can be determent by looking at how glossy it is.
    If it comes out glossy then your speed and temp are OK. If matte, then you better crank up the temp or slow down allowing filament to get hotter as it passes thru the nozzle.

    Yes, slowing down will give more time to bond the layers together but why bother going slow if you can go right ?
     

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