1. Got a question or need help troubleshooting? Post to the troubleshooting forum or Search the forums!

Printing Printers

Discussion in 'Projects' started by mark tomlinson, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    That will fit two bearings. One where it goes through the main printing arm and the other at the top. That should totally take the weight off of the threaded rod and split it with the smooth rod. No more twisting/jumping of the build plate. We will see tomorrow :)
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    20160117_165208.jpg 20160117_165223.jpg

    Snug fit, but how tight it is (I think) is moot.

    There is about a 4mm gap between them if you close it all the way. Our bar and top plate are thicker than that. Will probably use M3 screws and nuts (sized the holes for M3)
     
  3. JustinRF

    JustinRF New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    4
    Can't wait for the test prints!!! Keep us posted!
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    I'll take some video tomorrow. We will be doing complete print tests with no MakerJuice initially to make sure that everything works and that the timing is right. So I can shoot video of it all happening.

    We already know the timing is whack. By timing I mean when the shutter opens and closes and when the projector is projecting the layer and when the Z axis kicks in for a lift. The sequence SHOULD be something like this:
    • for each layer
      1. shutter opens
      2. projector puts image on plate
      3. time passes (10 sec)
      4. shutter closes
      5. Lift to next layer (or done)
    What is currently happening is rather a joke :) It is an un-orchestrated collage of actions.
    Each of the timing/pauses can be tweaked and we need to completely test all of this before we waste any juice.

    Once we get to what we think is correct timing we can do test prints. Undoubtedly we will then STILL have to fiddle with exposure time adjustments. The 10 sec 'guess' is based on the projector model.
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    This has put paid to the wobble. it is no longer wobbling side-to-side or up/down when transiting Z.
    It is approximately level on the bottom and the addition of the smooth rod and bearings has eliminated the binding as it travels up/down.
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    There is a tiny bit of bind at the very top of the tower, but reworking the top printed part will sort that. I am not in a panic for that since the likelihood of ever printing that tall is small. I'll rework that later.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    OK, an update. This is important.

    Our dry run prints were whack. We finally got the sequencing working so the shutter opens/closes correctly, up goes up, down goes down. The amount of Z travel was way, way off. Went back to Banggood to confirm the thread and pitch on the leadscrew, Amazon to make sure the motor step angle was correct and then all through Marlin to figure out if it was set correctly and microstepping correctly.
    Why were the actual numbers for travel we were seeing so far out of touch with reality?

    Banggood lied.

    Turns out that T8 2mm pitch leadscrew is in reality an 8mm pitch. That made the actual calculated Z steps/mm come out dead on with what we had 'discovered' through experimentation. So the Z steps is actually 400 (we had experimented and worked out roughly 405 so not bad). Firmware modded, re-loaded and back to doing another full dry-run.
     
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    That is a little coarse for this type of 3D printer we will likely eventually replace that with a 1 or 2mm pitch leadscrew, but at this point DAMNTHETORPEDOES... I want to see it print.
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    So most of the day was spent cursing at CreationWorkshop.
    Ultimately resolved it by uninstalling and reinstalling.

    Seems to be working correctly again.

    I think I know why most of the DLP printers come with their own software...

    Still if it finishes the current dry run (little over another hour) without failure I am going to be willing to load up the maker juice and give it a real test.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    Now attemping first print.
    We did NOT use the teflon clear coat on the build vat simply because it is impossible to get it to come off the backing neatly.
    So, we figured we would try the first one without it.
    If it fails because of that... lesson learned and we will figure out how to get that crap on.
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    It is a pity we don't know enough to know what are NOT doing that we should be or what we ARE doing we should not be :)

    Breaking out my How to Talk about this experience book

    Just to be prepared :)
     
    #113 mark tomlinson, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    Well, the teflon coating is apparently a must (and probably a longer exposure time). We ended up with a mound printed on the bottom of the reservoir/vat :)

    So I need to work out how to effectively install that stuff their instructions are well worthless.

    On the bright side there was a hard blob/lump that vaguely resembled layer one on the base of the vat...
     
    #114 mark tomlinson, Jan 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2016
  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    Teflon coating mostly applied, retesting with a smaller tchotchke
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    Ehhh. still a failure.

    It is very hard to troubleshoot in the traditional fashion since you see nothing as it is in progress.
    I think we need to re-level the build plate (or reattempt to at least) to see if we can't get it closer to the bottom of the vat,
    Also we need to probably turn down the resolution. The default was 0.05 layer height and for testing I jacked it up to 0.1 which did speed things up, but may be contributing to the failures.

    Also, the MakerJuice (just as a PSA) is vile crap. So don't get it on you or children or other living things. It is probably not deadly, but it is nasty stuff and hard to clean up on skin. It is somewhat caustic which just adds to the problems with wearing it.

    To be continued.
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    So a query into the others who have done this has generated a huge response in terms of ideas
    .
    Not the smallest of which is to forgo the PTFE liner for a pure PTFE spray on coating
    Made by...


    wait for it....

    WD-40 -> that is already ordered :) It is special formulation they sell.

    We also go as well as a bucket of suggestions.
    Apparently the "sticks to the bottom Vat, but not to the build plate" symptom is common and curable.
    The fact that it prints is the big win. There are a lot of tweak points.

    So as soon as we sync another day off (tomorrow I think) then we will hit it hard.
     
  18. JustinRF

    JustinRF New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    4
    Still looking good!!! I heard that makerjuice stuff is not nice... Does it smell as bad as people say too?
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    21,138
    Likes Received:
    6,997
    It smells worse. It is evil in that the smell is not horrid, but it is persistent.
    We should have the teflon/PTFE spray tomorrow (thanks prime) and then we can go back to testing. I want to recheck and make sure the build plate is absolutely flat on the bottom of the vat.
     
  20. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    6,561
    Likes Received:
    2,264
    Been following the thread.... How's it going??? I'm excited to see this beast in action!
     

Share This Page