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Solved Printing Problems Following Installing LCD XXL

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Doug Gebhart, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. Gabriel Moore

    Gabriel Moore Member

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    When I installed my xxl and laid the Robo on its side. The brass nut for the right side z axis slid down on the holder. I had to firmly press the holder down till it snapped back into place and tighten the set screw down.


    Sent from my SHIELD Tablet using Tapatalk
     
  2. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    When you installed your XXL, did you have to unplug an 8-pin cord? I did, I assumed it was the USB connection, and left it off. Was I wrong?

    I don't think its a mechanical issue, simply because I installed the LCD on my third printer and was very, very careful not to disturb anything, and it still had the same problems.

    I measured the steps on the pyramid, the bottom level is 4.7 mm in height, the others are about 3.6 mm.
     
  3. Gabriel Moore

    Gabriel Moore Member

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    The cable you had to remove was for the SD card reader built into the Robo. That was replaced by the SD card reader on the xxl.

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  4. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Doug Gebhart as much as you want to believe it, there is no cause and effect between the symptom and the added hardware. You are either not telling us every single set you took or there is a mechanical issue, or a wire is loose. None of which are the fault of the LCD.

    Again, it is just a Display/Input device, not a Controller, despite the poor name choice.
     
  5. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    I understand that, however, this Display/Input device allows you to change settings such as Z-offset, feedrate, and such. These are things that would normally be stated in the gcode. My concern is that there is some interference between the gcode and the controller in such a way that the controller is overriding the gcode and causing the print to make a mistake.

    The reason I am thinking software rather than hardware problem is that the exact same problem is happening on 3 different printers as a result of adding the LCD. It seems unlikely to me that the exact same hardware fault happened on all three at the exact same time.

    I am going to try to use slic3r and repetier-host to create the gcode and see if there are any changes.
     
    #25 Doug Gebhart, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Nope, doesn't work that way, nothing is stored in the LCD, so if you restart your printer it will have the default settings either from firmware of from Arduino EEPROM (if enabled).
     
  7. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    I am not talking about storing anything here. I understand the LCD pulls the setting from the firmware. The LCD can change the settings on the printer in the middle of the print through input. I am concerned that for some reason, as the gcode 'flows' through the LCD to the printer, the LCD is changing it in some way that is causing the prints to have mistakes. This requires no storage and could be a mistake of something like the LCD sending the wrong command to the printer.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The GCode does not go through the LCD unless you run it from the SD card (in the LCD).

    It does talk to the RAMPS and can send in GCode commands, but don't complicate it.
    It does not store, interpret or send the GCode through itself.
    If it were randomly including some GCode the odds that it would be invalid in context are high (so it would be ignored or show up as an error).


    It is basically a dashboard on top of the RAMPS and can input certain commands.

    Occam's razor :)
     
  9. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    I am running it from the SD card in the LCD. I am not really sure how we got to discussing this in so much detail, but I get the gist that the LCD is probably not the culprit. How do I check whether the Z-axis hardware is working correctly or how do I reset it?
     
  10. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    I sliced the calibration cube with Slic3r in Repetier-Host and below is the result.
    20151209_133007.jpg 20151209_133019.jpg 20151209_133029.jpg
    I have 3 printers, and this is one from each. This was using the SD card slot in the LCD. It seems like a cooling issue, but the fan is going at full speed as far as I can tell.
     
    #30 Doug Gebhart, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    We discussed in detail because you were insisting on things you were told many times could not be true.

    re: your images, no context, you don't say which picture is the product of which printer. Secondly can't tell anything from images two and three because they are so badly out of focus. Only thing I can say for sure is that the first printer is out of adjustment, or your slicer settings are wrong. I am pretty sure the base shouldn't have that elephants foot effect, likely bed is too hot.

    Bottom line we can't help you without your help.
     
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  12. Sloan32

    Sloan32 Member

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    Would you please lay off a little? Sorry but you're being a little rude.
     
  13. Gabriel Moore

    Gabriel Moore Member

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    Using the same printer. Disconnect the lcd and print directly from usb. Do the same problems occur?

    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Sloan32 lighten up
    @Doug Gebhart Please specify which printer is which picture, and move that camera back a hair to achieve better focus then reattach the new images. Help yourself to let us help you.
     
  15. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    What do you mean by which printer is which? As I stated before, they are all R1s, they all have the LCD and they all are being printed from the SD card in the LCD and the gcode was all made by repetier-host. I am not sure how you want me to differentiate them. In my head to keep them straight, I have been referring to them as black, white and blue, according to the color of the filament. Also, you can ignore the elephant's foot on the black cube, I had the z-offset settings incorrect on that printer for that print. You will notice the same thing did not occur on the ones below.

    Last night, I tried printing some more, this time reducing the print speed by half and forcing the fan on all the time. The results were not successful. See below. Sorry they are upside down, not sure why that is happening, they look fine when I open them. Black looks the most successful, but it still looks like cooling issues.

    20151210_074523.jpg 20151210_074555.jpg 20151210_074955.jpg

    I will disconnect the LCD and try them again printing from the USB, and see what happens.
     
  16. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    When you installed the LCD were you sure to reconnect the ramps cooling fan?
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Better, sorry I missed that they are all R1's. First the black one, other than over-extrusion and cooling, or too slow printing. If the head stays on the piece too long and the extruder is too hot you will get oozing and plastic will stay too soft, over extrusion will cause too much plastic to extrude, several things can be done.

    If you have calipers measure the filament diameter of the black, white and blue along about 10 feet of filament. Likely you will find that they are not all 1.75 mm. If all the printers are set up identically then you will have issues with inconsistent extrusion if the filaments vary in thickness. Speed has a bearing in that you can actually extrude too slowly but most people have a combination of errors so when they try to print faster other factors are involved. So we need to look at this as the result is a combination of errors not one simple thing.

    Robo does not actually test every single printer to see if they are on spec, more so that they just print something. You are making something not printing something so just like any manufacturer you will need to invest the time in tuning each and every R1 you own.

    The first thing I would do is measure your filament, as I mentioned, since 3D Making is not a precise manufacturing process if you decide to average all measurements across all filament rolls you will likely be close enough. I would ask for replacement rolls from any that are oversized by quite a bit, say 1.80+ (undersized is easier to work with). Now on each and every printer watch the following video and calibrate all three printers. This will involve editing and re-uploading the firmware so become familiar with this procedure (outlined at the bottom of the page).


    Once that is done, you will have a known starting place, you know that you are extruding the correct length of filament when asked.

    On the other white and blue, If they are identical, either I am being fooled by the perspective of the images or they are physically shorter that the black. The only thing that really causes this is either the Z axis missing steps or the firmware has the wrong values on those particular machines. If it is the former, make sure the fan on the bottom of the printer is actually connected and running 100% of the time, it is a flimsy connection and can come loose rather easily. If the fan is running, then look at the firmware files for a file called Configuration.h. In it near the middle of the file will be the same line that you will edit to adjust the extruder steps. Here are the default values based on particular R1 versions:

    For the R1+Plus or anyone that has done the Official Lead screw upgrade the line should be as follows:
    Code:
    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   {80,80,800,723.38}  // default steps per unit for RoBo 3D R1
    Notice how they incorrectly comment that this is for the R1, when in fact it is for the R1+Plus

    For the R1 that uses 8 mm threaded rods the line should read as follows:
    Code:
    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   {80,80,2560,723.38}  // default steps per unit for RoBo 3D R1
    For the R1 that uses the imperial 5/16" threaded rods the line should read:
    Code:
    #define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   {80,80,2267.72,723.38}  // default steps per unit for RoBo 3D R1
    There are more things to do but this post is too long already, after you check these items we will all be starting from the same page and can figure out the remaining issues (if any exist).
     
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  18. Doug Gebhart

    Doug Gebhart Member

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    OK, so I left off the bottom plate when I installed the LCD, so the fan was not connected. I didn't think it was a big deal because I had it up on lifters so there should have been tons of air flow. I didn't see a way for the bottom plate to go on with the LCD cord in there, so I left it off. I will reinstall it and try again. Could this be causing all my problems, and has leaving it off for several prints caused permanent damage?
     
  19. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Not likely permanent damage, it really takes a lot to damage a chip nowadays, but the overheating is a well known and documented issue with the Arduino/RAMPS combination. It will cause missed steps plus you have two motors generating heat under there and pulling current from the MOSFETS on the board. When you leave off the bottom with no fan you are passively cooling the electronics and it simply isn't enough. Active cooling with the fan is a minimum requirement.

    For the LCD cable, just cut a small notch on the edge of the bottom plastic, that will be enough to put the cover back on and be unobtrusive.
     
  20. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    This is almost certainly the issue. It needs active cooling, passive is not enough. You can definitely get the bottom case on by having the cords flat against the side. Otherwise make a notch.

    And no, not permanent damage, the stepper drivers have a safety shutoff when they get too hot, which is why your prints are all shrunk.
     

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