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Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by danzca6, Aug 30, 2016.
Having the ProFeeder clear would be really cool to watch the swapping happening.
Only 18 full kits left. Still plenty of upgrade kits. 15 days to go. Hopefully I'll have the funds in a couple weeks.
Josef Prusa over on the Original Prusa i3 MK2 has put out this press release for something they've been experimenting with since 2015.
Looks to me like they're already a step ahead of the Prometheus guys (4 materials instead of only 2) except for using the E3D hotend instead of a Prometheus hotend.
Id imagine all the issues brought up (or concerns) would be doubled with a 4 way system.
Very cool idea. Lets see if someone does it on a robo
He has a 2-way available as well. His price for the 2-way is $199 and $249 for the 4-way.
Thanks for the link, I just checked it out. Based on the timing of this announcement and the limited information provided, it seems like they really rushed this product release after the launch of our Kickstarter.
They do not go into detail about how they solved the issues involved with this approach. If you look at our campaign page, you can read through the section "How It Works" to understand the issues we had to overcome. From what I can see, their design uses standard non-geared extruders, and does not appear to address the issue of the "plug" that forms at the filament tip upon retraction. They also do not have the KETRON HPV PEEK filament guide part that is essential for the performance of this system.
Their marketing looks polished, but given the lack of information and fact that they do not show timelapses of their product printing hundreds of filament switches leaves me questioning.
I would encourage you to take a look at the "How It Works" section of our Kickstarter campaign to understand the difficulties involved with this approach and how we solved these issues to print reliably with The Prometheus System
We have already started manufacturing and we are on track for the November Early Bird delivery. Stay tuned for the next update!
The problem with that is that Josef Prusa has a lot of credit with the general 3d printing community and has generally been very good about publishing everything once a process/design is figured out.
Are you sure you read the article? Because he does go into how they addressed issues with the priming/retraction issue in swapping filaments.
Thanks for popping in! Good to see you and congrats on your kickstarter! Excited to play with it!
I did read the article very carefully. I am not talking about the priming issues, that is the easy part. I am talking about the issues of reliability and repeatability of the filament switching process that need to be addressed. Please read through the "How It Works" section of our Kickstarter campaign to understand what I am talking about.
Thanks, Geof! We are super excited to get this product out the door!
Please read through the article again where the author explicitly says he's looking for testers and feedback to help iron out any design issues he may be missing.
I think that both Eric and Josef are pretty smart folks and have been successful at their past projects. Sometimes there is more than one solution to a problem. Time using the products will show who did a good job and who did a great job solving that problem. Josef announced it and has preorders, but is still in the beta stage since he wants more designs and time printing with his system from beta testers to make sure it is ironed out. I think once both systems hit the users we will see how well they both work. Until there is an actual non biased review of both, then we can only speculate and assume. I'm impressed with both solutions. Shows me that there is a race to getting dual extrusion to the mainstream between these two solutions and other vendors rushing to perfect their own dual extrusion printers. It is exciting to see the industry evolve. Eric's kickstarter is a big success for supporters. We will see soon enough when these start hitting our favorite YouTuber's mailboxes how well it performs. Tom has already spent time with the pre-release version and liked it. I just wish I had the money to have both systems to say who I think has the better solution.
it would be fun to play with both systems for sure. Maybe I'll have to pick up both. that ditto of mine is begging for the promethius system
@danzca6 I am with @RP Iron Man on this, Prusa has done some brilliant work (to be honest I am not a fan of moving the bed around) but all he wrote and mentioned on the video is that 'he solved the problem' with no details as to how it was done. At least Eric explains the solution he provided to the issues he has seen. I am not actually doubting Josef, I am sure he has found a way to solve the blob problem, just pointing out that he didn't actually say how he solved the 'issues' that have come up so far.
I just find it much harder to simply accept statements that pronounce a solution without actually saying what that solution is.
No I totally agree. Did you mean me or @daniel871? I wasn't arguing that point at all...at least I don't think I was.
I also have never thought the moving Y axis would dish out the kind of quality Josef has accomplished on the MK2, but he has proven it can be done. So we will see if he can pull off another win with his multi extrusion system. It's a bit of a new domain for him. I just love the innovation people are showing around 3d printing these days. Can't wait to see both systems in action. Seeing the Prometheus on a Robo will be great to see.
Yeah I might have meant @daniel871
I like a lot of what Josef has done, but Ultimaker just got 15M Euros of loans and I really want to see where they will push the industry. It's too bad that all of the modifications Josef has made to Marlin are based on 1.0.2 and not a more robust and stable version like 1.1.0. The stepper multiplexor is an interesting solution and I think that board would work on the Prometheus as well as the way Josef uses it, heck, it might also work on the e3D Cyclops too.
That is so true. The multiplexor is pretty sweet. For those with the R1+ Ramps, I was wondering if this would work for them to expand out for the Prometheus or other multi extruders. Since he is running this on a Rambo Mini...not sure how compatible that would be the Ramps.
Folks on the e3d forums gave grief on mentions of both systems and said it was no different than what the Cyclops offers. I don't get much love over there
@danzca6 I found out a long time ago, that the most vocal people are the fanboys and they never think that there could be a better solution than the one they have chosen. You show them something different or better and you have to be prepared to educate them and expect to get a lot of resistance. It can't be equal, it has to be better or they won't concede. The Rambo Mini uses Marlin and it is should be a simple matter of changing Configuration.h to use the pins-RAMPS.h instead of what Prusa uses. But I wouldn't use his firmware since I don't want to go back to 1.0.2 no matter what he adds to it. So I guess I won't be rushing out to get the multiplexor anytime soon.
If there was a way to take Josef's modifications to Marlin and make it an option in the newer version of Marlin that would be something, or at least if he could rebase his patches on 1.1.0
I didn't realize he is NOT using 1.1.0. That is discouraging. I'm sure he will switch (or hope) once it is out of RC status. With him using mesh leveling I thought he was on 1.1.0. I guess that was available earlier?
I am not sure Josef's MESH is the same as the MESH in 1.1.0 and I am too lazy to look at his GITHUB to see if Edward Patel was the contributor.
He also stripped pins.h to a bare minimum so there would be a lot of coding to get his modifications to work on a regular RAMPS board.
Grrr. There are no comments in his source code about anything he changed.