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R1+ Dual/Multi Extruder upgrade questions

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by eternalphoenix64, Mar 9, 2017.

  1. eternalphoenix64

    eternalphoenix64 New Member

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    Sorry in advance for long post. I've been doing too much research and not finding all the answers I want.

    I've had my R1+ for several months, but only just started printing with it finally a month or two ago. I've mostly just done a couple parts for work that would have taken longer to machine (we don't have a CNC mill here) and some hobby prints. I'm a mechanical engineer with a small amount of experience in electrical and microcontrollers. So far, I've been dialing in the settings on a couple prints so that I can compare a print done in PLA vs. ABS vs. SSPLA, possibly a couple other comparisons. I'm comparing differences from both print directions and material in terms of a specific repeated stress.

    Anyways, I'd really like to have at least dual extrusion, at the bare minimum so I can use a different support material that's easier to break away, and have several questions, so please bear with me. I've seen several forum posts about the R1 being upgraded in a variety of ways (usually E3D Chimera, Cyclops, or dual V6, sometimes even Kraken) but there's always a caveat about things being different with the R1+, but those comments aren't always succinct about what needs to be changed/what is different (or perhaps I just keep finding the wrong forum posts over and over again).

    1 - How does the original hot end compare to the E3D V6?

    2 - I think I want to start out with dual extrusion, but leave myself the option for something like the Kraken later on if I end up saying to myself I absolutely MUST have quad extrusion. What's the best way to go about doing that?

    3 - I've decided that if I'm doing multi-extrusion, I can't afford the weight and bulk of direct extrusion, so definitely need to look at a Bowden setup. Can anyone point me to a good walkthrough/parts list/mod/etc. for doing that with multi-extrusion, especially if it relates directly to the R1+. Bear in mind that this also has the possibility of going quad Bowden.

    4 - What are the pros and cons (ignoring cost for the moment) of going Single V6 + original hot end, Dual V6, Chimera, or Cyclops? Any other extruder options that I should look into? Everyone seems to swear by E3D as far as quality goes, so I haven't seen any other options. Especially interested in impacts on print area of each option.

    5 - When I start printing SSPLA (Proto-Pasta is figuratively in my back yard), I plan to get a hardened steel nozzle. I was thinking of sticking with the 0.4mm, but I was curious if anyone had any experience that they could share if I want to consider a different size?

    6 - I saw people suggest Simplify3D for slicing software, especially when it comes to multiple extruders. Does anyone know of any way to demo the software before I buy it? Any other software you might recommend? I like the MatterControl so far, but I can see its limitations.

    7 - I know that I will need to print some parts and/or buy hardware, so what exactly do I need? Assume that this includes any electronics, motors, screws, printed parts, basically ANYTHING that I will need for both the dual extruder setup as well as the dual Bowden setup. I do have Solidworks (perks of having been an engineering major and the school upgrading to new licenses) so I can design things if I need to.

    That's all I can think of for now. I may add more as I think of it.
     
    #1 eternalphoenix64, Mar 9, 2017
  2. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    1 - It's a perfectly fine entry level hotend, where the E3D v6 is the Gold Standard, basically.

    2 - The best way to do this is to save your money and buy a printer purpose-built for that many extruders. By the time you modify an R1+ to successfully use quad-extruders you could've bought a much better machine that was already configured for it. Also keep in mind that the way the R1+ is designed every hotend you add is going to decrease your print area by the room taken up by the hotend.

    Everything from #3 on is a moot point.

    Look at this news release here:

    http://www.prusaprinters.org/original-prusa-i3-mk2-multi-material-upgrade-release/

    You can attempt to mimic that setup on the Robo, but that way lies lots of tears and frustration and QC issues that you'll discover as you head that way.
     
    #2 daniel871, Mar 9, 2017
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  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Both fine hotends. The E3D is as @daniel871 pointed out the gold standard of hotends and has replacement parts available for every part. The hexagon is largely a "buy a new one if you have issues" sort of a part.

    Again, if you really want to do dual extrusion go with @daniel871 idea of a purpose built machine. There are ways (look on thingiverse) to convert a Robo to dual bowden extruders, but you will be mostly alone in getting it to work. Will people try to help? Absolutely, but since so few have an actual dual-extrusion converted R1+ -- you won't have a lot of peers :)

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:285851

    If you go with dual extruders (rather than a single extruder with multiple output options) you really want to use two of the exact same extruder or leveling them will become a nightmare. Not that leveling two exact same extruders might not be a challenge -- it might. Two of different sizes though would be an impossible task.

    Hardened steel is perfect for any filament type. Not stainless, not brass, but hardened steel.

    You can't demo it per se, but they offer a two-week money back if you don't like it plan.

    See the thingiverse link I pointed you to if you still want to go there. While Mike originally did that with the v5 E3D the v6 should work as well.
     
    #3 mark tomlinson, Mar 9, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    While I agree 100% if you want a multiextruder machine...buy one built to do it (speaking from experience on that one). Its very VERY hard to model and print in multi extrusion but its doable. if it were me (and I did) I'd look at the promethius system by distech automation. I have ordered one so if your not in a huge hurry you can wait for my thread on how it is/works and how I installed it. I'm not sure when it will come in other than sometime this month (hopefully) but keep an eye out and you'll see a thread on it(and if you get one and have it installed before me...sharing is caring lol)
     
    #4 Geof, Mar 9, 2017
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  5. daniel871

    daniel871 Well-Known Member

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    #5 daniel871, Mar 9, 2017
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you really want to do it, go for it.. remember:

    Master vs beginner.jpg
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Mar 9, 2017
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