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reprapdiscount LCD display

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by Printed Solid, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Robert Choban

    Robert Choban Active Member

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    This is for SteveC. I tried to mount the LLC controller on the front, like you showed on a previous page, but the cables that come with the LLC are not long enough. When you mounted your's did you have longer cables made. I have one of the newer RoBo R1 printers. The bottom of the new RoBo has a pastic cover which a fan is attached to that sits directly over the Ramps card.
     
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    This is the LCD I am using now with cables extended to 1 meter. I made the cables myself. This LCD is supported by Marlin but requires the correct parameter setting in configuration.h and the Arduino graphics library U8glib

    Note : Ignore the other box on the right - that is my auto filament feeder.

    IMG_0404.JPG
     
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  3. RokleM

    RokleM Member

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    I have to check again, but with the newest model there isn't an ideal location to get outside of the chassis without some major hacking of the body. The cables are just long enough to get outside and the LCD lay on the floor, that's why I need something that is 6-12" longer.
     
  4. Bjorn

    Bjorn Member

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    Well this is how I have mounted it.
    I have printed the Feet, The case and my own tilt bracket.
    (cables are now all shielded), until now it works excellent :)

    Just 2 little 4mm bolt hold the LCD case to the robo.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:472676

    2014-09-21 23.08.28.jpg 2014-09-21 23.09.03.jpg
     
    #204 Bjorn, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
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  5. Robert Choban

    Robert Choban Active Member

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    Bjorn,
    1. Are you using the XXL controller that Printed Solid is selling, this is the one I bought, also where did you get the case design, I have not seen the one you are showing.
    2. are you using the cables that came with the XXL controller, or did you extend them, also what did you shield the cables with. I believe you are the one who doesn't like the idea of extending the cables?
    3. does your printer have the plastic cover on the bottom, like the newer R1 printers.
    4. Would it be possible to see how you have the cables run on the bottom and connected to the controller.
    5. Is there a concern with electrical interference when running the short cables that came with the XXL.

    There has been a lot of discussion about setting up the XXL controller, I'm trying to figure out which approach to take.
    1. should I extend the cables or leave them the same length that they shipped with.
    2. How do I connect the controller to the printer frame, and how do I run the short cables under the printer and connect to the controller, when there is a bottom to the printer.
    3. I'm still confused as to what is considered the graphic controller that Ziggy is referring to, Is the XXL controller that Printed Solid sells consider a graphic controller, should I have bought a different controller.

    I really appreciate everyone's help, without this forum I would be in a lot of trouble and very frustrated.
     
    #205 Robert Choban, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  6. Bjorn

    Bjorn Member

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    Hi,

    1. No, I am using the Full Graphics one.. Case for it: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:87250
    2. No, I am using 10cm shorter ones that we use at our company for other products.
    3. No
    4. See picture above..
    5. Well let me explain.
    My profession is developing electronics.. specially this kind of hardware..
    And 1 big rule for some communications busses, keep them as short as possible to prevent any problems whatsoever.
    Seeing 1m cables running LCD data busses and SPI busses, ichhhh.. (sorry Ziggy no offense:) )It may work.. but you can not say its 100% ok.. I will sure never advise other people to do the same..
    Simply because these data busses where never designed for that kind of purpose..

    The big problem with most printers is the stepper motor wires, they are mostly not shielded.
    The stepper are driven by pulses, with some current.. what happens with each pulse is they generate a little spike..
    In good developed electronics these spikes are surpressed. On the Ramps drivers i dont see such advanced surpression.
    Now what happens with unshielded stepper cables is that they radiate like antennas when the steppers are driven.
    Other cables pick it up, and if its strong enough it can "disturb" other electronics.
    Since the display uses unshielded cables too. they also acht like antenna's receiving the noise.
    Also really not unthinkable is that the 2 cables from from the LCD's (1 is for SD and encoder, the other for LCD) can interfear each other.

    At our company we have a leaprfog creatr whe redid the whole cable assembly because of this.. stepper wires running next to data wires.. all unshielded..
    We had nothing but problems with that machine.
    Since the hardware makeover,, it now functions stable.

    Like Ziggy says, the busses drive on some really high speeds.., One or some glitches of EMI can really crash it..

    My advice, Just stay with the cables supplied..

    About fixing it to your robo, you have to do some drilling and cutting to fix the case and run the cables inside.
     
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  7. Mike Kelly

    Mike Kelly Volunteer

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    Does that detect a stop in filament? Looks really cool man, do you have more info?
     
  8. Bjorn

    Bjorn Member

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    Yeah im very intrested in it too :)
     
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    Re the Full Graphics LCD display. I am not sure why this topic of cable length generates a much "debate" as it does. There appears to be lots of FUD about this topic and a wide variety of views.

    To put this issue into a realistic perspective and apply some common sense remember

    • The SPI (Serial Peripheral Interface) interface http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Peripheral_Interface_Bus is a well defined interface standard and used very widely. This interface is supported by most SD Cards and is "fit for purpose" in this application. SPI is also supported natively by the Mega2560 processor in the hardware (and by the an Arduino library).

    • In the case of the LCD display SD Card, the SPI interface operates at only 4 Mhz. Very low speed compared to many digital interface standards. Of course the SPI circuitry and cabling still need to be designed to good practice and standards.

    • Consider that the USB (Universal Serial Bus) interface standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Cabling specifies "USB 2.0 provides for a maximum cable length of 5 meters for devices running at Hi Speed (480 Mbit/s)." Over 100 times the speed of the SPI and over 15 times the distance many seem to be worried about with the LCD Display. I don't see any great debates about why USB is not a clean and acceptable interface standard.
    The satisfy myself, I made some I meter long flat cables for my Full Graphics LCD. It works, is reliable and is fit for purpose. If others feel this is not conclusive, then I suggest some concrete demonstration that it does not work and why would be a useful contribution. Even better would be some suggestions for improvements to the SPI cabling or LCD Display design.
     
    #209 Ziggy, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    Yes the Filament Feeder does have an alarm if the filament breaks/stops. But in this photo the break detector was not fitted as I am still playing with the design.

    Basically the main purpose of the feeder is to take any tension off the filament going into the extruder and to monitor for breaks/end of spool. The feeder has a Arduino mini and inexpensive but high torque stepper pulling the filament off the spool. The feeder firmware uses the Ramps extruder stepper pulses and direction signal to know exactly how much filament to feed. The feeder display shows the rate of feed and the total length of filament fed. Feeder firmware set up parameters and display is managed using a simple IR remote control.

    Whole gadget has been working well for a few months now - but still in beta test.
     
    #210 Ziggy, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
  11. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Robert, I used the stock cable that came with the XXL LCD. I'm pretty sure that I asked you way back to post a photo of the cover over the RAMPS board;). I have no idea what this looks like. Does it get in the way? Otherwise the cable can be routed as I showed if you are careful.
     
  12. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Ziggy, I agree with everything but be a bit careful with the USB comparison to the SPI over the ribbon cable. Remember USB is differential, unclocked, shielded, has well specified termination specs, and has a CRC protocol.

    I wish that I still had a Hyperlinx license so I could simulate the Arduino/RAMPS/cable/SD card paths.
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Moderator
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    I am well aware of the USB specs. In fact the limit on USB 2.0 cable length is because of the propogation delay limits not noise or signal degradation issues. But I certainly don't want to go round and round this debate yet again.

    As a famous man once said "Opinions are like a$$holes Everyone has one". So on this particular topic of LCD cable length I will refrain from exposing my opinion any further ;)
     
    #213 Ziggy, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2014
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  14. Robert Choban

    Robert Choban Active Member

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    Ziggy would you be willing to make up a cable for me, My group that bought the printer will be will to pay for you work.
     
  15. Robert Choban

    Robert Choban Active Member

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    Steve sorry for not getting back to you with the picture of the newer RoBo R1 printers
    I have loaded up what they look like. Still don't know how you connect to the Ramps board from where you mounted the XXL controller. We tried to connect to the Ramps card and we were about 4 - 6 inches short. If you need any more pictures let me know, again sorry for the delay.
     

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  16. RokleM

    RokleM Member

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    I will try to get a picture of how I routed mine on the R1, but yes the cables are barely long enough to get outside (hence the reasons I would like to source longer ones also). I have to check, but see no easy routing way to get it mounted in the front style case I see most use without cutting up the case quite a bit (which probably isn't a huge deal).
     
  17. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the photos. I see that they retooled the case to add standoffs for the bottom plate. It gives me some ideas for making my own bottom plate.

    Here are some detailed photos of my XXL LCD cable routing. It really should not be a problem with your printer unless your cable is much shorter than the one shipped with mine. I included a 6" ruler for reference. Adding it all up it looks like my cable it not much longer than 16" or so.

    IMG_2311.JPG IMG_2306.JPG IMG_2308.JPG IMG_2312.JPG IMG_2314.JPG IMG_2313.JPG

    Note that I cut/melted a slot through the XXL case back for the cables. You probably would want to make a much bigger slot to fit the connectors without recrimping them. It might be easier to just edit the STL to add slots. Note my careful bends in the cable, try not to kink them too much. The position that I velcroed it at does not interfere with the print volume. When I transport it in the box I just wrap it in bubble wrap and lay it on the bed.

    Here is the bottom for reference. The relay on the right is for an auto power shutoff when a print completes.

    IMG_2303.JPG

    If you can't route it and need a few more inches I can make you a longer cable. I have tons of ribbon cable but would need to buy 10 pin connectors or cut down some ones I have.
     
  18. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    No cutting required ;).

    I think if you extended the cable another 8" or so per Ziggy, and routed it like I did, the display could be nicely mounted on front area above the bed. This would look better and be a bit easier to transport.
     
  19. Robert Choban

    Robert Choban Active Member

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    SteveC
    I would be in your debt if you could make me a longer cable with ends on it. I would be willing to pay for you time and any materials you need. After looking at your pictures and your case I think I see why yours works and mine won't. I'm sending you pictures of what my case looks like and how I was thinking about placing it on the Robo. The ruler is 12". I also not sure how you got your ribbon cable thru the slot in the back of your case, did you put the ends onto the cable after you pull it through the case.
     

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  20. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Yup, looks like your's came with much shorter 12" cables. I got mine from Printed Solid back in November.

    Sure I would be glad to crimp some longer cables for you. Just PM me your contact info. I can't use the connectors I have because the key is offset by 1/2 a row for an even row number. I just found some on Amazon prime so it will take two days to get them plus a day for me to get around to making and trying them. (My priority is to help my daugher study for a college chem exam... Hybrid Pi Orbitals:mad: what?) I'll also make a longer 24" set to try the top location for myself. Then I can measure any voltage drop on the supply and perhaps put a scope on the SPI signals.

    If you want them to exit the LCD case at the top can you estimate the length you need? Just measure with a string or wire. My guess is you would need about 21". I think it would look better to cut the slots in the back though. I can make you two sets so you can try the top location also.

    Like I said above you probably need to make the slots wider to fit the connectors. I took them apart to get them through the thin slot and recrimpted them.
     

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