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Partially Solved Robo 3DR1+ (Refurb?) Underextrusion

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Karuuv, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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    Good Morning :)
    I recently-ish bought a second (broken) Robo 3D R1+ from ebay and fixed all the issues up to this point (Thanks largely to this forum and youtube), but I'm noticing underextrusion.

    Here's what I've done so far:
    •Tightened various pieces on hotend, as they were a little loose (Had oozing from above heater block)
    •Double checked the printer head isn't too close to bed.
    •Fiddled with temperatures in case the thermistors read differently than my first Robo.
    •Cold Pulled/Atomic Pulled several times with Nylon (Nothing came out.)
    •Replaced Nozzle.
    •Measured 100mm and extruded, found under-extrusion there and adjusted.
    •Measured the voltage on the Stepper Driver: This was kind of weird because my numbers were janky compared to expected (Was at .058v, Y axis was at .072 so matched that... but if I adjust higher than .075 it drops back to 0v?
    The thread I saw seemed to think it should be able to go to double that. Maybe I wired the breadboard funky?) - Extruder Motor used to run without heating up at all, now the extruder Motor gets to about the same temperature as my original R1+.
    •RE-measured the 100mm of filament and adjusted, to correct for the new extrusion voltage.
    •Changed to printing on the same computer as the original RoboR1+ as the laptop lagged during a print.

    These SHOULD be chronological from left to right. I might have mixed up the first two, but I'm fairly confident on the last 3. The middle one I believe was an issue with the computer lagging, as that went away when I switched off the laptop I was using with no changes to settings or printer.
    20181228_174006.jpg

    Unsure which of these prints this was, but figured it'd help. Occasionally top layer doesn't completely overlap with the perimeters, or will have gaps within the topfill itself.
    (Using elephant phone holders as my test print as even if they under-extrude they're still useful and can be gifted to friends/family/coworkers so I don't feel like I'm wasting plastic)
    RedElephant.PNG

    Same plastic and print on my Original R1+ just to make sure the plastic hadn't gotten funky from age. (3D Solutech Red PLA)
    originalR1.PNG


    My current plans:
    ◘Print a different oiler, as the one I'm using on this robo is completely different compared to my original and I want to rule out the oilers performance as a variable.
    ◘Swap the Extruder Driver with the Y axis and see if it improves anything.

    Running low on ideas at this point. I never see the extruder physically stop, but maybe I'm just not watching it long enough.

    I'm still a little weirded out by my voltage findings, do the latest drivers just run lower or did I screw something up in my testing? I'm not a very electrically knowledgeable person so I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

    Any ideas/suggestions appreciated :) Thank you for your time!
     
    #1 Karuuv, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Slicer. This is your slicer. In Simplify3D I would be adjusting the "outline overlap" to fix this, but not sure on the others.

    The stepper drivers can be adjusted higher unless you are using something different that the A4988 (pololu) ones. I never bother to try and calibrate them myself, they come new factory adjusted to what should work fine (1.2 - 1.5 amps per coil) and they can be adjusted up as high as 2 amps, but that should not be needed and will tend to make the steppers run hot. You can add heatsink fins on the steppers if you do need to run them that high
     
  3. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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    For the slicer: I'm using MatterControl for both printers (Both have .4mm nozzles as well), and the original Robo 3D R1+ doesn't have the issue on the top layer. I'm hoping that means this isn't the issue?
    The issue also isn't consistent - if I print two elephants in a row (One after another, not 2 on the bed simultaneously) I'll end up with a different pattern of gaps on the top, and throughout the individual layers.

    Here's a side by side compare between my original Robo3d (Left) and the new one. The top right of and some of the bottom of the 'bad' elephant does connect to the wall ok, but not completely around, and the eye is completely screwy.
    Compared to the 'bad' elephant in the second image above, this pattern is completely different (Eye was mostly fine, most of the issue is in the front leg on that one) though this elephant does appear to be one from before the potentiometer changes.
    sidebysideTopView.PNG

    I'll try running a print through both printers in Cura though to be sure, as I hadn't even thought of ruling out the slicer. Thanks :)


    I believe these were the Pololu's (I believe this Robo was originally purchased as a Refurbished unit from Robo before it was resold to me), which is why I was so confused that the potentiometer seemed to measure so much lower than the forum post (Found the post: http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/stepper-driver-calibration-information.6466/ ) said they should be.

    Thanks again for the reply :)
     
    #3 Karuuv, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That post you linked is spot-on and totally is the correct way to do it :)
    I am lazy and usually just swap a new driver board in and test. If the new one works I pitch the old one (because tuning them is a hassle and once the tuning needs adjusting even once they are starting to go south, because they are tuned at the factory to the baseline numbers).
     
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If the same slicer is giving you different results for the same STL on two similar printers then ... not the slicer.
     
  6. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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    So biggest culprit is probably a stepper driver going bad then (Or I screwed up the tuning)? Robo doesn't seem to sell those separately from the RAMPS/Arduino from what I can tell, so if I get them from a third party will I need to tune them myself since they wouldn't be going through Robo, or were you saying the manufacturer of the Stepper Drivers tunes them?

    Thank you again, I really do appreciate the help. Until this latest issue I had thought I was "pretty good" at fixing the odd issue here and there, but this one has shot down every theory I've had so far, or at least not fixed it entirely.
     
    #6 Karuuv, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Steppers? They don't need tuning. Get one that is 1.8 deg. step angle(200 steps/rev) and it will be fine :)

    The stepper drivers are tuned to the norm from the factory really. I have been through a lot and almost all are preset to about 1.2 AMPS per phase. Mind you they must have the heat sinks if you give them more than 1 amp per phase, but they all come with heat sinks (just make sure you attach them).
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    and for the R1 series... I don't ever buy parts from Robo :)
    They are super cheap elsewhere and bog-standard parts.
     
  10. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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    Sorry, I should have typed Stepper Drivers, not steppers - fixed that post so it's less confusing.

    Thank you for the example on which ones to get, I'm always a little iffy with getting non-standard parts, especially since last time I did (RAMPs board) I lost the ability to control the fan from the slicer (I couldn't find any spot marked for the fan on so ended up having to wire it to be always on. Haven't been able to print directly on the glass since then, I miss that shiny smooth surface.)

    I like to get some things from Robo if I can just because I appreciate the heck out of their printers and want to support them :) but it's rare for the part I'm looking for to be in stock with them (I'm looking at you, teeny tiny fan that cools the heat break) so it doesn't happen often, and the R2 is a bit out of my price range for the next few years.

    I'll drop the "Unresolved" from my first post for now until the new stepper drivers arrive and get tested.
    Edit: I guess I can't drop it to blank, but I don't know if it's technically resolved yet so threw it as partially resolved for now.
    Thank you!
     
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  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Uh, the fan controlled by the slicer goes like this picture shows :)
    This is a standard RAMPS 1.4 (not the robo one):

    RAMPS 1.4 EN-sinsensor-alt.jpg

    If you have it wired that way and it is not working then -- bad RAMPS

    If you use the Robo provided one it looks like this:

    Robo3D R1 +Plus Ramps Board (labeled).jpg
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    They are electrically the same board, but Robo just dropped a lot of the connectors off and moved things around a little
     
  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, that is the real reason to use generic parts. Not just the price, but the availability.
    I usually just buy the all-in-one kits from Amazon (there are several vendors who sell them) and they include all the parts (Arduino Mega 2560, RAMPS 1.4, stepper drivers, heat sinks and even an LCD)
     
  14. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Exactly like those :)

    There are 6 or more sellers on there that sell something very similar (as in "identical") to that and all for roughly the same price.

    The better news is that I have used several of them and so far parts I got with a kit like that -- all worked. Occasionally standalone RAMPS boards were birth defects (sure, with Amazon I am going to get my money back, but it is a hassle to order "3" of everything if you only need "1" just to be sure you have a working part)
     
  16. Karuuv

    Karuuv New Member

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    Yep, I'm a dingus, I didn't plug anything into that slot on the generic board. I think it saying "Heat 2" confused me, Thanks for the info on fixing that :)
     
  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    It is not like they document it well or anything :)
     

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