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Answered Robo3d R1+ Refurb Quirks

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by AntiReality, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. AntiReality

    AntiReality New Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I purchased a R1+ refurbed a couple months ago. Got around to using it recently. Seem to be having a couple
    issues with the machine and printing.

    1) Manual XYZ control in MatterControl either works, or it doesn't and theres no consistency in its operation. It may operate an axis in one direction but not in the other. May state values in one direction of movement but the axis does not move. Requires closing the program and starting it again. (Seems the concensus here is that MC is terrible.) Is this normal behavior?

    2) Told machine to print a calibration circle. Noticed stringing issues/oozing. Left filament in the nine auto level points. Ran stock at 210c/50c medimum quality but had a skirt with four loops for adhesion. Print looked okay besides the stringing of PLA filament and a zit. I noticed in the software, the temperature control readings seem to swing from values of -3 degrees below target to +5 degrees above. In order to combat the stringing issue I changed the extruder target temperature to 205c which swings down to 202 and up to 209/210.

    At this point I tried to see how well it could create a 20mm XYZ calibration cube and after initially heating the extruder nozzle to the 205c target temperature the oozing settled down and im getting less to none in the nine level points. Printed the cube out, flat surfaced sides look fine but the X and Y sides have problems. Y side as it reaches the split for the arms of the Y looks recessed and melted. Followed by arching for a couple layers on the top of the right. Similar on the X side as well.

    Decided today to try again and see if there was consistency in the output results, first attempt my printer apparently was not homed properly. It tried to start printing above the bed. Made sure EEPROM was reset, even though nothing should have touched its values. Shut the machine completely off, also took the time to extend the wires on a z-stop as it appears it wasn't exposed with enough slack and one of the connectors was bent.
    Printing of the second calibration cube yielded repeatable results with the same imperfections on both the X and Y sides of the calibration cube.

    Any ideas on this issue?
    cubeaxisx1.jpg cubeaxisx2.jpg cubeaxisy1.jpg cubeaxisy2.jpg
    3) Thought I might try to print out some feet risers to raise the machine up. Set quality to high, preheat bed and extruder. Watched it put down some layers. After awhile I noticed that it didn't seem like it was moving the spool at all. Canceled the print and told MC to extrude filament, nothing. Tried again, nothing. Released the tension on the PLA and pushed down on the filament. Made sure extruder was up to temp and a smoking glob of PLA oozed out of the hot end. Did my nozzle clog or is it likely the PLA came loose inside and it was not able to push it through the extruder?

    4) The corrugated tubing that runs from underneath machine, up the right side and then down to the assembly that protects all the wires. Is it supposed to be attached to the case of the machine somewhere? The entire thing is free to move anywhere it wants, which seems to cause catching on the PLA as it feeds down from the top. It also has a habit of sandwiching itself between the z axis rods.

    Once these quirks are worked out I do have an enclosure, xxl lcd and an e3d v6 hotend waiting inside a box but don't want to install those until I can eliminate possible existing hardware issues. Considered swapping out the firmware as ive been following those threads, think I would want to stick to auto bed leveling if I did. Have a few other slicers already installed if I have to dump MC.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Ryan TeGantvoort

    Ryan TeGantvoort Active Member

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    First issue I see is your extruder temp is too high. That is why it's stringing and oozing out without actually extruding filament. Also get rid of the raft or whatever that is on the bottom of the print. You will need the skirt to prime the extruder but offset it from the part. If it's not sticking just use some glue stick or hairspray. Also you can try printing at a slower speed like 50 mm/s and see if that helps with the Cube. If you haven't already you will want to adjust the Acceleration settings in the firmware.

    As for the wire loom, there should have been a clip/bracket at the top of the machine to hold it.
     
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  3. AntiReality

    AntiReality New Member

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    Appreciate the help. :)

    I took a zip tie and tied the wire loom back towards the top of the housing.
    I left the skirt to prime the extruder and set it to be detached from the print.
    I went into MatterControls settings for speed and shifted everything in the menu to 50mm/s.
    I searched the forums pretty heartily in reference to proper Acceleration settings but it seems to be an elusive topic, ive seen the XYZE max acceleration in a thread as 1000, 1000, 100, 2000 and I set that in the firmware. Also some references of folks setting Acceleration in the realm of 500/600. I ended up setting Acceleration to 1000 until I can get some more clarity on the subject.
    Is there a guide to Acceleration/Maximum Acceleration somewhere? I know theres a steps per mm guide for extruder calibration.

    I dropped target temp for the extruder from 205 to 195 and left the bed at 50.
    Printed out the calibration cube and while the layers look slightly smoother, it shares the same deformations in the print as the previous two.
    Any ideas?
     
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  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    The lower your drop your accel and jerk the better your print quality will be but at the cost of longer print times. Both my robos run around 750 accel and 14.5 jerk because that is where I am happy with the improved quality vs extended print time, anymore and I didn't get the "satisfaction" so I leave well enough alone. Your settings will be totally up to you and what finished quality you want off your machine. Some say you want a certain percentage of your print speed, but I find it better to try a few different prints with a few different settings, find which one you like the best and upload changed firmware. (this is how I do it and its likely not the way ANYONE else would do it lol, just giving my 2 cents on it :D )
     
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  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Me too. One is 600 and the one I use for detail prints is 300
     
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  6. AntiReality

    AntiReality New Member

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    I just moved the right side threaded z-rod a minute ago as I was looking at my carriage and one side was lower than the other. Raised it up a bit.

    Looking through to see if I can find data sheet information on the stepper motors to change the steps and see if that improves anything.

    How big is the cavity in the x-axis where the coupler nuts for the z-rods are supposed to sit? Im thinking I have two different sized coupler nuts or ive got one side not seated in the x-axis as ive got considerably more coupler nut extending out below the z mechanical switches on one side. Images below are the left side z coupler nut followed by the right side. Right side is the area thats questionable.
    leftznut.jpg rightznut.jpg
     
  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  8. AntiReality

    AntiReality New Member

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    I appreciate the help from everyone.

    Leveling out the one side helped the layers a bit and telling MC to add support everywhere helped with the formation of the XY letters, but unfortunately left some pretty chunky artifacts inside them.

    I switched over to Cura for Robo 2.5.0, the XYZ homing code G28 is not in the Gcode profile when you select the R1+. Someone dropped the ball.

    Watched it extrude noodle for a couple seconds.

    Added the G29 and printed out another XYZ cube, my layers have continued to improve albeit still some issues with the lettering.
    Noticed the leadscrew rods seemed to have a fair amount of play and ive watched the rods as they've moved with upward movement.
    Printed out a pair of z bracers, looks like an open ended wrench on both sides. Will have to pop the top off the machine to get them on the rods and hopefully that will improve something.

    All progress is good progress. :)
     
    #8 AntiReality, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Normally you can not sweat the thread rods movement much, the smooth rods lock everything in place.
    There are rare occasions where either (1) something is wrong with the smooth rods or (2) the threaded rods are seriously bent that you can get actual defects from it. That is not normal by any means.
     
  10. AntiReality

    AntiReality New Member

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    I'm just surprised that theres so much play in the z leadscrews. I would think there would be more rigidity with the steppers below and the assembly holding it to the smooth rods. Maybe the design negates the movement of the rods, just don't feel like its something you should be able to wiggle around with two fingers. Obviously the smooth rod guides are there to serve the purpose of stabilization.

    I ended up printing out a z tensioner and attached it to the x axis belt, gave it a pretty solid grip on the teeth.
    Working on the fourth riser foot to raise it off the shelf.

    I trust this Cura for Robo 2.5.0 more than MatterControl. Couple downfalls to this is no manual axis control, printing time/estimated time left isn't calculating anything. And the virtual work space decides when it wants to work for changing the view of the bed. Sometimes you can change the views with the arrow keys on the keyboard, sometimes you can't.

    I did take the plunge and purchased a copy of Simplify3D, seems to be a lot of positives to that slicer. Ill mess with it when ive got some of these pieces out of the way.

    Should you ever grease the extruder gear set?
    I just gave all the rods a re-grease with the included tube lube, does everyone use this? Or does anyone use white lithium grease?
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The Z rods ONLY provide lift motion. Minor deflections side-to-side are not transmitted to the carriage. Only of they get really bent is there any chance of that wobble getting transferred into the carriage.

    The extruder gears should not really need lubrication, but if you worry about it use graphite. When I reprint gears I use nylon (it is has a more slippery finish by nature anyway). Alloy 910 is my favorite for that.
     
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