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Answered Silent Robo3D

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Oisin, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    How unfeasible is it to change the drivers for the stepper motors? The noise isn't a massive deal but it does limit you to printing during daytime hours only (at least in my house). This limits the quality levels too, since lower layer height/slow speed = longer print times.

    Could the drivers be swapped for something like these?:
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You may have to adapt the firmware. I have not looked into it in any depth, but it will be a consideration.
     
  3. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    It would be a very cool project, although, if it was easy I reckon every 3D printer company would be doing it. A totally silent 3D printer would definitely be a selling point.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If you want silent go with SLA or DLP as they make almost no sound at all.

    The shutter moving is a tiny click and the Z axis is the only stepper (and it moves slow).
     
  5. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Oh I know, but they're also crazy expensive. It'd just be cool to have a silent FDM printer. As I said, must be something really tricky in that since I'd imagine someone would have already done it otherwise.
     
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    There are several factors that go into the noise from many 3D printer designs, one of the least significant factors is stepper noise. From my personal experience I would rank them in this order
    1. Fan Noise
    2. Bearing Noise
    3. Stepper Noise
    Replacing fans with low volume versions is not always practical so we will just have to accept some noise there, But you can add fans or increase their size in key locations to make them less noisy.

    Bearing noise can be mitigated with either plastic bushing/bearing, such as IGUS and their counterparts or with bronze bushings. Both offer considerable noise reduction in the X and Y axes and much less in the very slow moving Z axis.

    While going to a 1/32 stepper or a TI based stepper driver might lower the overall noise of stepper motors used in our application, I think you will find that it is one of those things that will give you just a decibel or two and really should be the last resort if quieting the machine is the primary reason for switching them.

    One very effective way to quiet the machine is to place it in an enclosure. Someone on here posted a thread that modified an IKEA Lack table (the Lack table is truly a universal resource :)) to make it an enclosure. I don't recall how far he got with the project.

    Personally I have replaced the fans, but the need to properly cool the electronics and printer itself did not produce enough results. The bushing/bearing upgrade did make a significant dent in the sound output and I would heartily recommend it. I have not addressed stepper noise nor considered an enclosure.
     
  7. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    Interesting suggestions! I've been trying to make a soundproof enclosure of my own. I've been using RockWool, though, which I don't fancy having in my house. Also, it's an amazing insulator and I wouldn't want anything to overheat inside the enclosure.

    If I'm honest with you, I'm not actually sure what you mean by 'bearing noise'. The bearings in the X carriage? I tried Googling "IGUS bushing/bearings" but they have quite a few. Could you go a little further in to what you meant, please? :) If it took a good chunk out of the noise I'll definitely be trying it out.
     
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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  9. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Be very careful when considering enclosures. Make sure you are allowing for proper cooling of the electronics. I would suggest MK's enclosure kit http://printedsolid.com/collections/accessories-and-upgrades/products/robo-3d-safety-enclosure-kit. It helps with sound and keeps the temps nice in cold areas.

    Also you could get dampers for the steppers. Haven't tried them myself, but have heard good reviews on other printers. Not sure if any other robo user has used them yet. http://www.ultibots.com/nema-17-damper-astrosyn-my17rmdamp/
     
    #9 danzca6, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
  10. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    @mark tomlinson

    I had no idea they were making noise! Since it was smooth on smooth (inner diameter of the bearing on the smooth rod). I'll buy some of the ones suggested in the thread you linked.

    @danzca6

    In terms of enclosures, I'm all about noise reduction more than anything. Currently it's in a wardrobe that I intended to line with RockWool to dampen the sound out to nothing. It would have worked if I didn't have second thoughts about putting what is essentially fibreglass in by room. I wrapped the rockwool in binbags and screwed that to the inner walls of the wardrobe, I then lined the new interior with a bedsheet, partly for looks and partly to stop any stray particles that made it past the binbags. Based on the tests I did, the printer should have been inaudible inside that. It also would possible have overheated.
     
  11. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yea, the bearings are not close to quiet.
    I did some hunting and there are better ones available, but they are expensive and frankly... there are better things to spend the money on. The alternatives @WheresWaldo used are a better cost-benefit.
     
  12. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Hey, I'm all about ROI! :D
     
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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I swapped the cheapos out for much better quality ones on one of the units a while back. Did it help? Yea, but not like night/day.
    The only good side-effect is that those are much better bearings and less likely to fail.
     
  14. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    @Oisin both of my threads have short videos demonstrating the post installation noise from basically the bearings only.
     
  15. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    I had a good look at my printer last night and definitely the loudest components are the stepper motors. The fans make a relatively base-like noise, but the steppers are high pitched so you can hear every move the printer makes through a wall. I'll slowly begin changing out parts and try to reduce the noise. I'll take a measurement of the decibels on my phone now and reference it when I'm done.

    I'll change the bearings, the fans, add some vibration dampers to the steppers (these ones: http://www.ultibots.com/nema-17-damper-astrosyn-my17rmdamp/) and *maybe* change the drivers out for the ones I suggested if that seems feasible.
     
  16. Oisin

    Oisin Member

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    @WheresWaldo
    I watched your video and weirdly enough I feel like my printer is exactly the same noise level as yours except mine does make a lot more noise when the z-steppers are moving.
     
  17. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    I am telling you honestly, most of that noise is fan, what you hear as whine is the bearings. But it is your machine, replace the drivers then record a video and let all of us judge whether it really made any difference. Some people are more sensitive to higher pitched noises, but that usually diminishes with age.

    I omitted a step when I did my mod, even though I know for a fact that the noise level is lower, I should have recorded a video using my sound level meter to 'prove' it. Stupid of me since the internet is so cynical of any claims.

    Here is a video that shows the typical noise reduction between LM8UU and Bronze bushings.
     
  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Even the 'good' LM8UU bearings are still metal bearings and make an appreciable amount of noise. The more the merrier :)
     
  19. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I like the noise :) lol sounds terrible but that's how I keep tabs on the robo while I run my 2nd table on the end table next to me in the living room :) lol when the noise stops either 1. Robo Print is done or 2. Crap! What happened!?
     
  20. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Still too loud if you have a family. You can get the Robo to beep if you have an LCD smart controller, when it is finished printing.
    M300: Play beep sound
     
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