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Supports shredding

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by spanishcop, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Can someone tell me why this is happening? Is it the extruder, my settings or the model?

    I tried a regular size print that was going to be like 8" or 9"... It's a figurine and this happened. I was using .1mm and 10% infill

    [​IMG]

    I then reduced size by 50% to further test at 2mm, 20% infill and happened again and seems to be in same area.

    [​IMG]

    I don't think I've seen this happen before. I haven't tested a different model yet to see if it's happening with other files.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks
    Mike


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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Definitely try another model, but just visually I',m thinking some under-extrusion
     
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  3. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    What's a way to fix that?

    I'm currently doing a support print test.

    Just seems odd as the first one the full size print it had some solid supports in middle. And when I reduced size seems like same area. That's why I figured maybe the model as well.

    Is there a good file on thingiverse to test this that won't use too much filament.

    I'm doing this one now...

    [​IMG]

    I actually stopped it before top layer was finished so I could look at the supports. This is what I got....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not sure why it's doing this. Other than supports it does great on sides and fills.

    [​IMG]


    Is there something better to test it?

    Mike


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    #3 spanishcop, Nov 17, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2018
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Well now that I think I actually read what you posted :) ...

    First, what slicer? Some are better at support material generation that others (and support materials, rafts, infill, etc are NOT a part of the model they are totally generated by the slicer).

    Secondly, what thickness are those walls and what size nozzle do you have installed? While it is possible to print a wall thinner than your nozzle diameter it is not a good way to go. You want the wall thickness to be a multiple of the nozzle diameter/extrusion width for best results.
     
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  5. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Well that's. Good question.

    Everything is factory on nozzle and stuff. I haven't changed anything.

    I have tried printing at.1 and.2 mm.

    I use CURA that I downloaded from robo3d website.

    I was going to purchase simplify 3d but haven't done that yet. The cura software says is upto date, printer firmware upto date and octoprint I believe it is also showing upto date.

    Filament is hatchbox which never has given me trouble.

    There are a lot of settings on robo 3d in custom but I don't know much about what all they do so I usually run default setting instead of custom.

    I'm pretty new at 3d.

    But I honestly don't recall having these issues with supports in the past but not sure I printed much that needed supports.

    I have had some issues with extruder gear not always feeding and would just grind filament and not grab at times, but I recently replaced that and it appears to be feeding fine. Set screw still tight.

    Mike



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  6. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    From what I've gathered online on under extruding is a couple things....

    Blockage in nozzle which doesn't seem to be an issue from what I see. Filament comes through and seems to flow okay when loading filament. I will remove nozzle and check it when I get off work to be certain.

    I've been running temps around 200 though I think it normal says 190 to 210 or something like that.

    I have not noticed issues with filament tube that prevents filament from feeding properly. I wouldn't think the gear is the issue again. I'm pretty sure it's working properly.

    What's odd is that it happens most on the left side of the print than anywhere else no matter if print is located on left, middle or right side of bed.

    [​IMG]

    Should I try to increase the flow of pla? I'm kinda puzzled to be honest. I mean I'm pretty new to all of this and not really sure where to tweak things to fix the issue. I'm just reading and troubleshoot trying to learn as I go here.

    So any suggestions are welcome and I can use any educating I can get with 3d printing.



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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    If other models are printing well then underextrusion is less likely.
    When I talk about wall thickness I do NOT mean layer height (that is layer thickness)
    Most slicers call that the shell: https://ultimaker.com/en/resources/52343-shell

    So make sure your shell thickness is a multiple of your nozzle diameter for best results.

    Under extrusion can be caused by micro-clogs, but generally it is a function of the mechanical parts. On the Original R1 series Robo did a poor job of calculating the extruder eSteps for the firmware (which is what you would adjust) I think on the C2/R2 they have dialed this in better.

    Since not all of your prints look under-extruded I would look at the wall/shell thickness and make sure it is logical. Worst case, try that model on a different slicer.

    For FDM printers it is my slicer. Occasionally I will use something else as an experiment, but because I can't get the settings I need (I love multiple process control) I always come back to it. However, DON'T spend the money until the free ones can't do the job. Consider it a hammer, as long as it works for the jobs you need, use it. When you need a bigger one THEN upgrade :)
     
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  8. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Thank you,

    I will check she'll thickness and also can you recommend a slicer other than cura maybe to try that you would recommend for the R2.

    Is Simplify 3D a good slicer. I'd like to create and maybe even modify some files to fit my needs. Simplify 3d seems to be pretty straight forward with what I'm looking to do but I have no experience with it as a slicer.

    Anyways.... Any feedback is greatly appreciated. And thank you for your replies.

    Mike


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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    As a slicer it is superb. I don't use it to do much in terms of modification of models, just slicing.
    As a bonus it has to be the fastest slicer I have ever used. 30 seconds is a long slice.
    Once you get used to the process model it uses there is a world of features you can explore in terms of how you tackle slicing.
    It isn't cheap for a slicer, but compared to the software tools we use for our CNC/Lathe/LASER cutter machines it is chump-change (which is slang for really cheap).

    I do all the work on the model in 3D CAD (Solidworks usually although we do use Fusion since the CAM stuff is available and NOT nearly as expensive as others).
     
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  10. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Mark... I was reading a conversation about printing over USB cable with R2 which your name was in back on august 2017. There is mention of R2 not listed in printers list on simplify 3d.

    Before I dropn$150.... Will simplify 3d work with R2 and am I going to have to do anything special for them to work together or has this been resolved?

    Mike


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  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    It could be that you simply need to increase the width of the support, I think this is what Cura calls "Line Width" .
     
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  12. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Thanks Waldo


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  13. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The only thing that was missing was a configuration for the R2 (which you could manually do in a couple of minutes).
    They now include one for the R2
     
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  14. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Ok.....

    So I went ahead and purchased Simplify3D, I decided I was going to eventually want it so I took the leap for it.

    So I'm confused...... I have R2 profile and I see the R2 layout in Simplify3D, I added a small item to test everything...........

    BUT...... It can't find my R2 Printer. I have option for USB or SD Card ?????

    So how are people using Simplify3D with R2. How do I get it to find it my printer? Do I need to purchase a USB cable to run it from R2 to Computer?

    I believe the way it is right now.... when I run Robo3D Software w/ Cura it uses the WIFI connection to send files to print if I'm not mistaken.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  15. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    With the R2, since it is controlled by OctoPrint (essentially RoboOS is an OctoPrint Plugin) there is no direct connection method between S3D and the R2, so you either have to transfer any G-Code files with the web interface or physically transfer them using a Flash Drive. In the S3D forums there are some workarounds to try to automatically transfer files from S3D to OctoPrint, but nothing built into S3D.
     
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  16. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    Thank you for the clarification Waldo.


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  17. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    spanishcop likes this.
  18. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Yes a work-around, which I mentioned there are. Not official from S3D. One of the things that just seems like an oversight by S3D, although it has been asked for on their forums since version 1.0
     
  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Important to note that this will not sort it :)

    The USB connection is to the Pi, but AFAIK you can't get to OctoPrint that way (at least not directly)

    I am lazy and usually just upload them to the OctoPrint Web UI after slicing.
     
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  20. spanishcop

    spanishcop Member

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    First of all thank you to all of you for your assistance with working through a few of my issues. You guys are awesome and very much appreciated by me.

    So going back to my initial problem that started this thread....

    After quite a bit of trial and error, I sat there and watch prints over and over fail after fail and I may have found the issue though not certain yet

    1) When I load filament it comes out nice and thick. When it's creating the raft it looks pretty good as seen below.

    [​IMG]

    2) When making a solid object say for example a cube it comes out perfect. When making this it was a perfect fill and the PLA was feeding perfect.

    3) Supports - here is where the problem starts. Even on the very first layer of supports as you will see below when the extruder gear goes in reverse to pull filament away and then spin back forward to refeed as it went from one location of supports to another I notice filament was taking a split second or more for filament to start coming out causing extruder to just be "painting in the air" without getting PLA on the next layer of support. I was seeing dot marks or spotted areas until PLA would begin coming smoothly.

    [​IMG]

    On a couple times I noticed PLA quit feeding through and extruder gear was turning but filament quit coming out. I would later see that filament had been grounded down by gear and was not enough to catch and feed through causing it to print in the air again and failing print.

    4) Possible Solution - Again keep in mind I'm very new at this and still learning and really can use any educating as I make my mistakes and get things sorted out.

    SO.... Previously I printed at 195 C for my PLA and everything was perfect. So my thinking was... PLA was not melting fast enough in the extruder when PLA was being pulled away as extruder relocated to next support and then gear trying to refeed PLA at New supoort. That made me think pla was hardening in extruder and refeeding was not possible (clogging)

    So I increased temp to 200 C and tried again.... This time supports were looking better but still had issues

    I increased to 208 C and tried again and it looks like there is no issues so far on the current piece I'm making.


    This was a support test I made stretched out.
    [​IMG]


    Current model I'm printing.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So a couple questions... If the temp adjustment doesn't fix it which I think it probably will but if that fails....

    Extruder gear is brand new so I know that isn't the issue and gear is clean no plastic in groves.
    PLA is new out of package and should not have any humidity. Failures have happened on all my PLAs lately so I know it's not the PLA.

    So I'm curious if the tension is too strong or too light between gear and the round metal that is on other side of filament by the gear... Can this spring be adjusted to reduce or increase tension to help refeed when it pulls filament away or do I have to get a new spring?

    Any other thoughts you more experience people can throw at me to try if temps don't fix this issue?

    I will try the model I was trying to make with more extensive supports after this one finishes. See if temps help that situation. But so far so good on this one.



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    #20 spanishcop, Nov 19, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018

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