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So.. After fighting for a whole night.. Finally was able to make something stick...

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Ben Lindstrom, Sep 16, 2013.

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  1. Ben Lindstrom

    Ben Lindstrom Active Member

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    For the life of me I couldn't get any setting for ABS to work on Blue Painter's tape. So on tesseract's suggestion I swapped over to PLA.


    After a bit more struggling and finally breaking down and resetting my defaults PLA configuration and printer configuration to the Robo3d documentation I ended up with a print. Not completely sure what is happening.

    [​IMG]

    The bottom started out very rough, and as it reached the top it seem to become better. The absolutely bottom looks like, and it clearly shows stringy on the front face of the bottom steps:

    [​IMG]

    And you can clearly see the color change on the side:

    [​IMG]

    Plus it started delaminating. Can I assume that I need to up the head from 190C?

    In general the measurements are pretty good (at least to me). Majority of the steps are between 5.1mm and 5.6mm. Outside the top one most are decently square.

    I do have to say my greatest frustration with this printer so far has to be leveling and setting the print head.. If you get it down too far and the head rests on the bed the nuts come right out of the X carriage and you have to start all over for leveling the X carriage (which happen to be seriously out of alignment after shipping =). Took me a while to get the art of it down.
     
    #1 Ben Lindstrom, Sep 16, 2013
  2. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    It does take a bit of getting use to if you haven't printed anything.
    I am also glad that you got something printed.
    I am going to continue but I am not criticizing anything just trying to get you setup properly. Anything I say is only in that regard and not meant to criticize anything.
    For the first day I think you are well on the way.

    Now the hard part starts, you have it tuned but not yet fine tuned. LOL

    From the image I still think you are a bit to low your skirt is translucent and it really shouldn't be.
    A good indication of this is that you saw the majority of the issues in the first few layers then it seems to get better.
    What was happening is that the new layers were actually compensating for the layer beneath it and eventually when the issues in the previous layer were fully corrected then the print started turning out better. As you yourself said "The bottom started out very rough, and as it reached the top it seem to become better."

    I would try this one again and stop if it the skirt does not look good (ie looks transparent), adjust and restart.

    The next thing you get to play with are speed, retraction and flow rates.

    Things to look at in your current print
    Skirt layer and rounded corners this print should have very crisp corners

    Printing the 15mm cube is a good test for the flow and for the steps adjustment if any is needed

    Now that you can print things get real interesting

    If you print the cube at 100% fill you can see if you need to adjust flow
    When printed this way the sides should be completely flat and be 15mm in length
    If you see that the sides bulge out that means your flow rate is too high.
    If you see they are concave then it is too low

    My current settings is about 90%

    This is really the only way I know of to check for flow settings

    As far as steps go you can measure the x and y easily enough but z wont match until you get the first layers to be right as well. Once you get those make another post and we can figure out what needs to be done next.
     
    #2 tesseract, Sep 17, 2013
  3. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    OH by the way what PLA is that it looks different from what I was expecting to see
     
    #3 tesseract, Sep 17, 2013
  4. Ben Lindstrom

    Ben Lindstrom Active Member

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    That is the blue PLA shipped from Robo3d. I've not broken into the Monoprice stock sitting in the corner of my office (ABS only).

    And I'll try the above suggestion. And since this is my first 3d printer I expected to have an initial steep learning curve, and I didn't expect to have anything earth shatter good for a while.

    BTW, I don't get offended. I know you and everyone else are here to help, and I know I'm playing catch up. Which is my normal state as I bounce between different fields.
     
    #4 Ben Lindstrom, Sep 17, 2013
  5. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    I know about bouncing around it is fun at times and frustrating in others. Makes you wish for about 30-40 hours in a day instead of 24....who set that up anyway...:)
     
    #5 tesseract, Sep 17, 2013
  6. Ben Lindstrom

    Ben Lindstrom Active Member

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    Removing the blue tape, moving to hairspray on just the boroglass.. adjusted the head slightly down after the first print test for better bonding. And the PLA sticks really well now. =) Move th the 15mm

    Yet I have a different issue that doesn't seem to be covered. It is slanted...

    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    It starts drifting after the first layer. Didn't see this with my 5mm step print.

    And yes the filament when it is a single layer is nearly transparent.
     
    #6 Ben Lindstrom, Sep 18, 2013
  7. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Is it a continuous slant meaning it gets worse is it gets higher up or is it coming or moving back to me being normal towards the top
     
    #7 tesseract, Sep 18, 2013
  8. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    I saw in the shoutbox the "drifting" was due to loose piece of boroglass hey at least you got it figured out now..


    It should be all downhill from here right?!?!?!?!?!?!
     
    #8 tesseract, Sep 18, 2013
  9. Ben Lindstrom

    Ben Lindstrom Active Member

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    Ya.. I put two layers of blue tape just along the edges where the bed clips are and it is much better. However, I'm done for today as I snapped the back clip.. so I need to measure it up and see if I have some binder clips at work to borrow until I redesign the bed clips (which I guess is happening sooner than later =).

    Also realized that the speed seems fine, but I had to move the Flow multiply up to 140% while printing as it didn't look like it was being consistent in the layers. Next time I print I'll try 120% as this added almost 1.5mm to the 15mm cube. Where does one set this in slicer once they've figured out the multiplier? Is that "Extrusion multiplier" in the "Filament Setting" section?

    Also I still need to tune the hot head placement down a bit I think. But I'm very close (with PLA) to having something that works consistent (and almost in time.. I'm running out of test filament =).

    Thanks to Leon for the nudge in the right direction on the bed.

    [This really should be in troubleshooting section... Maybe we should get it moved there so it doesn't confuse others =)]
     
    #9 Ben Lindstrom, Sep 18, 2013
  10. JC 3d

    JC 3d New Member

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    Hey guys new to the forum and I got to say this thread is helping.

    Ben, I've been following some of your threads and they are really helping, however I'm stuck at this same point where after a day of calibrating the Z axis I finally got it to stick (with hairspray) and produced my first print. The skirt is printing flawless and the first layer looks like its on point, the problem now is that like you Ben, as the print gets higher, it starts to slant left in my case. I don't yet know how to trouble shoot this one yet, I don't know if it's something to do with slic3r of simply more Z axis problems.

    Tesseract, thank you, I've been reading your threads too and your a wealth of knowledge, however I need to pick your brain on this one, I attached some pictures to help show what I mean.



    Oh and yeah give to me how it is, no hard feelings, it's the only way we will all learn. Thanks again. View attachment 1132 View attachment 1133 View attachment 1134 View attachment 1135 View attachment 1132 View attachment 1133 View attachment 1134 View attachment 1135
     
    #10 JC 3d, Oct 22, 2013
  11. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    Ben a quick check on the flow settings is by doing the 15mm cube with 100 infill look at the sides if they bow outward the flow is to high if they are concave then the flow is too low if they are very very flat then the flowrate is good. I would consider this the standard by which to adjust the flow and once set it probably doesn't need to be altered.

    IF after determining the cube is flat at what ever flow settings you use I would look to other things as possible cause for issues that occur.
     
    #11 tesseract, Oct 22, 2013
  12. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    JC 3d for some reason I can only see one of your images the one in your hand and I am not sure what to say about it without having additional information

    It also looks like you somehow added them twice I would try again in a thread of your own and upload them full screen
     
    #12 tesseract, Oct 22, 2013
  13. JC 3d

    JC 3d New Member

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    Oh yeah this is a Pla system no heated bed, and that print was a 30mm cube with all hollow faces and 4mm square bars.
     
    #13 JC 3d, Oct 22, 2013
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    OK that is a very complicated print it has many things that can go wrong
    especially without supports

    I would stick with SOLID small parts until you get it dialed in.

    this is a great starting point and it gives a lot of info that can be used the 15mm cube (solid)

    There is a similar thing only it is a pyramid and it is a hard print to do as well it has hollow posts and open sides and it doesn't have to deal with bridging or retraction s speed or anything like that.

    try this and when this comes out good then maybe try your 30mm hollow version and see what differences there are

    Also you may want to move this to your own unique thread as it seems to be hijacking this one
     

    Attached Files:

    #14 tesseract, Oct 22, 2013
  15. Ben Lindstrom

    Ben Lindstrom Active Member

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    I think most of my issues are worked out. And the ones that are not are issues being addressed (i.e. new bed clip design).

    A major thing I just learned to do.. At least for the derp fox I'm printing is Honeycomb supports is your friend. =) I'm halfway through my print at 200microns (first one at this resolution) and everything is solid so far.
     
    #15 Ben Lindstrom, Oct 26, 2013
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