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Unanswered Practically 100% failure rate with longer (>1 hour) prints for various reasons.

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by erer1243, May 21, 2016.

  1. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    I've had my robo3d r1 +plus for about 2 weeks now. It's been pretty great, and I've enjoyed making and printing stuff a lot. The thing is though the machine, as a whole, seems really unstable. More or less every print I've done that is over 1 hour has failed, and for different reasons too. A few examples are that the filament simply fail to move at some point during a print and it simply doesn't print (I have to take off the head and work on it to fix that), the head crashes (I believe this is the most frequent), the head seems to come a tad off in one axis or another (it has happened with x and y but only once a piece) and the plastic did not stick to itself well enough. I'd say about 1/10 prints lasting >1 hour have actually printed acceptably (not necessarily completed or perfectly detailed). I can only think of one that has actually printed successfully all the way. I use mattercontrol for it's simplicity at the moment and I have altered between a reprapdiscount full graphic display and just plugging the printer into my computer. Now I'm not really looking for how to fix these at the moment, but rather if the machine should be expected to fail like this. If the larger the print the more likely it is to fail by that much.

    And what seems odd is I've only seen one or two shorter prints fail. As far as I can tell the printer is in a good environment and it doesn't seem damaged or incorrectly made in any way. I keep all air stationary and relatively warm while printing. It is on a level and sturdy table.I use kid's glue to adhere the plastic to the plate and I clean it with a small bit of water and a towel after every print. I can't see what's going wrong, if anything. Just wondering if, as I said, this is to be somewhat expected.
     
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    No not to be expected. I just finished up two 5 hour prints back to back and have had many longer. You have an issue with your printer.

    Please check to see if the fan on the bottom of your printer is running at all times. If yes we can go from there to get you sorted
     
  3. TomerO

    TomerO Member

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    Checking the fans is a good start.
    I would also suspect calibration issues. They might not be noticeable in small prints, but when you print big they will.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Start here:

    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/helpful-videos-novice-expert.7478/

    Getting the printer setup correctly is key and no -- they often do not arrive that way. Shipping is rough on these machines.
    Minor things can make a huge impact. For example if one or both of the Z axis home switches or the switch carriage/holder shifted down in shipping (even a fraction of an inch) your leveling is now effectively broken.
     
  5. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    In reply to the first two of you, Geof and TomerO, yes the fans appear to always be spinning. Sometimes they make grinding noises but it seems like most small fans do that occasionally and it goes away after a minute or so.

    To mark, the first video may be helpful and I'll probably do what he did and run the level checking commands. The second video gave me the idea to add an oiler, which I just downloaded one of and will print later.

    As for the other problems such as plastic not sticking I'm not sure what to do still.
     
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Can you add some photos of your failed prints and we can go further.

    That 40mm fan is still suspect (i had one that worked for 2 hours of my prints then would shut off randomly causing wierd issues)
     
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  7. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Getting the filament to stick is a combination of materials and adjustment.

    Lets talks bed adhesion:

    Some materials (PET for example and some nylons) really WANT to stick to the glass and generally need little encouragement.
    Other materials (like PLA and ABS) do want something to help get it to stay down.

    However the biggest part of getting filament to stick is getting the first layer to go down correctly.

    That is the big secret to bed adhesion. If it doesn't look like this:

    https://printedsolid.com/blogs/news/tagged/first-layer

    It is not, yet, right :)

    As far as the plastic sticking to itself...
    Make sure the material is not extruding a bit too cold (and not being able to fuse to the previous layer). Another issue is possibly something is off in the Z axis so that the layers are not being placed at the correct location. If you Z steps were incorrect then

    As @Geof suggested some failure pictures would help.
     
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  8. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    Here are some pictures. I added some information to the imgur descriptions, so read those. Unfortunately I don't have many more because I threw them all out. Also, I'd like to add a bit in case it's useful. Whenever I print out a set of stuff, a bunch of parts all meant to be printed at once and later assembled, it has always failed. But when I printed them individually, even completely back to back, there have been no problems. It seems like the actual length of the print seems to cause problems.

    Also, I've heard what you're saying previously mark. I never leave it alone without watching the first couple layers to make sure they go down. I also put on a copious amount of glue (washable kid's glue from a stick) immediately before each print. What I do is when the printer starts calibrating right before a print, I hit pause on the LCD controller. The pause is buffered to between the end of the calibration and start of the print since the calibration process is just one command. This is when I apply glue so it hasn't dried by the time it starts. Then I unpause it and let it go. Also I have only used PLA so far and plan on continuing doing so.
     
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Defianently use an oiler for pla. That could be causing you all sorts of headaches.

    Can you run a 1st layer only print for us to look at to verify. I dont use glue anymore i switched to aquanet hairspray but when i used glue it didnt dry out unless the bed was over temp?
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Put that oiler in or dip some filament in canola oil and send it through the hotend then try a print. Those look like no oiler issues to me. A light sheen of oil on the pla before you feel it through will be enough to test
     
  11. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    I'm making a model in blender right now that will be 1 layer. I'll print out the oiler afterward. I'll post once I've done the single layer print.
     
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  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Good idea. As is trying another slicer (or at least something other than MatterControl).

    Those are a bit inconsistent for a hardware problem (IMHO).
     
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  13. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    Here it is. Running my finger over it with some force doesn't pick it up. It is completely stuck down.
     
  14. TomerO

    TomerO Member

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    Why is it missing so much on the inside. Is that by design?

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
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  15. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Try this. it is a single layer print.
    I'd like to see something I know what to expect:

    Just size it to fit the bed if needed.

    My question was the same as @TomerO
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    It's defianently looking like matter control doing something bonkers. The first layer should look solid. The infill should meet the outline. If it's stuck very good I'd suggest what @mark tomlinson suggested and try a different slicer. Mike Kelley has a good write up for cura which is also free
     
  17. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    That looked like all my matter control prints at the end before I switched :)
     
  18. erer1243

    erer1243 Member

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    Erm, I'm not sure. It's solid on the inside, the model looks like the included picture.
    They are solid however. A few of the letters actually sprung away when I tried scraping them off ha ha.

    I'll try that circle now.
     

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  19. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    OK, given the model picture you posted ... that is a slice fail. Even if (for example) infill were low% ... the first layer (first few really) would never count for infill and should be solid.
     
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  20. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Try out marks print but I'm guessing it's matter control being buggy. Those things just drove me wild lol. Some days worked great some days not at all. some days turned into everyday so I switched.
     

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