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ABS Adhesion

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Todd Wessendorf, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    Been printing PLA on my R2 with, honestly, flawless results. Very happy. No hairspray, no tape, no nothing on the bed.

    Started an ABS print today, and started seeing the edges of the item curling up on layer 2.

    I'm noticing that the bed is pretty close to the open top of the printer when the job starts, and was wondering if we are losing a lot of heat up there.

    Either way, going to dig out the AquaNet, give it a quick spray, and try it again.

    Anyone printing ABS regularly on the R2 with continued success?
     
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Heat rises, take a guess :)

    You are learning why folks prefer something better than ABS. ABS wins (as a material) only on the basis of cost. I can use better materials all day long (in terms of physical properties) and they will be easier to print and not want to warp and curl... but they are not as cheap as ABS.

    Printing ABS without a heated chamber is a bit of a crap-shoot. You can get it to work, but it will take practice.
     
  3. Hoa

    Hoa New Member

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    Todd, I have the same problem with printing ABS on R2. I increased hot end temp. to 235C, heated bed to 100C and got the error Connection Interrupted.
     
  4. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I have not tried this on the R2 (and certainly not on the C2) but on an R1 I print ABS with as little airflow as possible around the printer, parts as small as possible, bed at 110c and the extruder at whatever works for that spool, but as cool as possible.

    That is just how you deal with ABS and no heated chamber :)
    @Geof can tell you how he manages it on the ones he uses.

    I just avoid it and have not printed ABS in over 2 years (for reasons already mentioned) -- you may not have that option if you already have invested in the material.
     
  5. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    Thanks Mark and Hoa.

    So, Mark, what would be a good recommendation to print with. Keep in mind I have the stock hot end. I have a new E3D All Metal one in the box, but haven't installed it yet. Also, not terribly worried about cost as long as we're not talking $80 bucks per spool.

    T
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Whoa! :)

    I don't know what your needs are for the material so ... bear that in mind.
    Start here:

    http://taulman3d.com/how-to-choose.html

    Pay attention to what you need in terms of various material properties. There needs to be a reason you picked ABS over anything else so... run the numbers. Did you go with ABS for more tensile strength? More heat resistance? What? That chart will help you nail down what material suits your needs best. If you give me more details I will be happy to give you an opinion.

    Some of them are more expensive than ABS, that is a given. Like I said originally ABS only wins in my book on price. For what we do I can usually shrug off the difference in price. We almost always care more about the material properties than the price difference (or can bury it in the project cost)
     
  7. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I only run ABS on my Zortrax machines. They run ABS 24/7 and have almost no issue, none of my other machines could compete. My Ultimaker 2extended+ now runs ABS as well, but only because I have a full enclosure.

    If you HAVE to print ABS buy a machine proven to do it. Something you CAN do is build a acrylic (or similar) top to go over your R2 to help keep the heat in, but please bear in mind ....If the heat has nowhere to go it means your boards may get quite warm. Be cautious.
     
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  8. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    I needed to print in black, and I only had black ABS. :) Honestly. I don't even know how old the spool it.
     
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  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    lol been there! My first material was ABS, then I immediately stopped any prints in ABS...then a customer came along with more money than I could refuse and now I do ABS.....but only on 8 machines lol. The others dont touch it. :D
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Hey, better than my reason. I think we picked it as a material alphabetically ;)
    Then after a year of printing with it, we branched out and never went back.
     
  11. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    I need to develop some sort of flexible, pleated material perhaps, cover for the R2. I also figure that open top is perfect for dust also, so, some sort of lid that can accommodate the moving print head . . . . I see accordion type material on either side, perhaps.
     
  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I am guessing a nylon would be a better choice.
    Off the cuff? Alloy910.
     
  13. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    or a piece of panty-hose stretched over the top with hole cut in it for the print head. . . . that's nylon I think . . .
     
  14. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    I was thinking that my longer PETG prints might suffer a bit from the open top. Should not be all that hard for a 3rd party to come out with a top for the R2, the filament tube is not bad. (Edit: Some of my PETG prints are 8" x 6" with a 60-hour print time, so if I don't control the heat it can get a minor warp on the edge)

    I do not print in ABS anymore, I am much happier with PETG as the strength and print quality are great. Holds screws really well and stands up being left in a car or trailer for months with no deformation.

    I am trying some of the Proto Pasta HTPLA 2 and V3, going to throw those out in the car for heat testing. The matte PLA that they make is pretty near, feels like suede but the print lines are invisible.

    ColorFabb PETG is nice, no issues with that. Essentium PLA and their Nylon are top notch. MakerGeeks PETG is what I run the most of, due to the color choices and short shipping times. MakerGeeks is a bit shiner compared to the ColorFabb, but my print settings are pretty close with only minor temp changes.
     
  15. Ed Ferguson

    Ed Ferguson Active Member

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    jwmueller - Please share some pics of Robo R2 jobs printed with these various filaments (and their settings).
    I'm sure other folks like me would like to experiment. The matte PLA sounds interesting. I'd also like to see results in nylon as I'll be designing some fixtures for my shop and nylon would be ideal.
     
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  16. jwmueller

    jwmueller Active Member

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    Will do, I have been really wanting to open the Essentium Nylon anyway.

    I gifted most of my PLA away, but have some fragments left that are fine testing.

    I normally print in the 0.05mm to 0.08mn range, any requests on Z resolution? 0.1mm, 0.15mm

    Edit: Will upload the image of the first print shortly, I am seeing stepper ringing I think. It does not look like belt ringing as it is way too regular in the pattern, almost perfect lines up the entire print. Sliced in Cura, I did see some other typical Cura slicing issues with where it starts the layers and the radius corners.
     
    #16 jwmueller, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  17. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    Very good point. Working on building a "hat" currently for my R2, and this is a good point to remember. I may fashion a fan that is triggered to activate when the bed moves a certain distance down (away) from the print head. It's just those first few layers, when the bed is so close to the open top, that a lot of heat is lost.
     
  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I'd worry more bout making a top for the R2 and just cooling the boards out the bottom of the machine (if it needs it)
     
  19. Todd Wessendorf

    Todd Wessendorf Active Member

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    I'll probably start with an un-vented lid, and measure the equipment bay from start to finish of a print to see how it is effected. Luckily the heated bed doesn't get close to the bottom unless I'm doing a 9" or higher print (rare).
     
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