Solved Buy Simplify 3D they said... it would be awesome they said....

So here's the deal, i have had my printer now coming up on 3 weeks, and i have to say with the exception of having to mess with a couple things on the printer it has been an absolute dream! i love my robo, i have already done a bunch of upgrades to it that has certainly made it more usable for me. ( lights, xxl controller, enclosure, E3D with volcano head ready to be installed) just to name a few) made lots of successful prints but never did much that needed any major support before. i had trouble getting the "lines" of support to stick. some would just pile up some would bunch up, some wouldn't stick, just lots of head aches. and it seems lots of burnt up pla for nothing. so i tried the "grid" type support with success! part printed perfectly!

Until i had to try and pull the support off.... which let me tell you was an absolute nightmare.... i literally had to grind it off with my dremel, and it basically left the part un-usable because of the looks.

Any how so i researched the hell out of programs to try an alleviate some of my supporting issues. pretty much 99% of the people i talked to HIGHLY recommended Simplify3D for its support printing abilities.

So i decided to take the plunge and spend the 200 dollars on the program ( wait what? 200 dollars? ya... the program it self is 149 dollars us... and because i am in Canada the exchange rate worked out to be around 200 bucks....) i got my key i downloaded the program and ii was able to install it in no time flat.

Well now here is where it starts getting frustrating... very very very frustrating.

Once i ran through the set up and "set up" the program for the use of my Robo 3D R1 (with auto leveling). One would think that it would be ready to go and print, but alas no, not at all. first thing i would do is try and print something, and all though it was "printing" it was basically printing garbage. some of the pla that it was putting down was "usable" but most if not 75% was stranded, stringed, clumped, pushed, or smashed together. but hey on the bright side i did get nice little squiggly lines for my support!

So back to the boards i go to try and understand why this was happening. Being a first time user of a 3D printer i was literally at a loss, so i turned to the forums to ask for help. well actually i turned to the guys and gals in the Robo3D owners group on facebook.

One guy suggested that my Z axis offset was incorrect and that i should try and match the one that was in matter control (which by the way was and is still printing like a champ). So I went about poking around the software to locate the Z axis offset, and low and behold there it was! it was set to 1mm! i thought great that was an easy fix! so over to simplify i go to change the offset to 1mm. but wait, there seems to be a couple Z offsets that i find.

The first one i find is the G-code Z-axis offset so i adjust that one to 1 mm and try to print something more than garbage, and well it didn't disappoint. inconsistent prints, if any at all.

The next one i find is the Z-axis Origin offset so i plug the g-code offset back to zero and try the origin offset set at 1, and well this time i was air printing... it was spectacular you should have seen it! i have never seen boogers being made at such a rate before! so i turned that one back to zero and went digging around some more.

well if your still with me i applaud you, i tend to go on a bit.

After digging some more i come across a post where a guy was trying to get his robo going with simplify and his problem was solved just by adding a simple bit of code that i believe Mike Kelly told him about, for him it was just adding the g28-29 code into the scripting code. so i locate it and wait... its already there! but after closer inspection i notice that there's a portion of it missing, this was my original script

"G28; home X,Y,Z axis
G1 Z5 F5000; will lift Z axis by 5 mm
M565 Z-1; sets the offset for the auto-leveling mechanism
G29; runs auto-level"

how ever Mike had this one posted

"G28; home X,Y,Z axis
G1 Z5 F5000; will lift Z axis by 5 mm
M565 Z-1; sets the offset for the auto-leveling mechanism by 1 mm
G29; runs auto-level"

slight change but i thought i would give it a try. (even though i know that this ; indicates that its commented out)

plugged it in and still.... air printing boogers.

So i decide since i already wasted 200 bucks at this point i would try and contact the simplify3d support so i head over to their website and under support the only way to contact them is via email... (facepalm) what a waste of EVERYONES time... so i send them an email explaining to them what was wrong. a day and a half later i receive an email back back basically telling me to just adjust the first layer print height percent to as low as 30% or 50% to help "squish down the first layer".

i locate that in the process settings, change it from 90% down to 50% and try a print... still air printing boogers. so i change it from 50% down to 30% and wait..... still air printing boogers.

well i email them back saying that i have tried this and it has not resulted in any sort of usable prints. and as a matter of fact has made it worse. ( i am still awaiting a response ) the joys of email... there couldnt be more of an impersonal way to deal directly with your customers. especially in a support setting.

So i start thinking about it a little more, and realize that all though the G29 routine is still running ( checking the 9 points of the bed) its almost like the software is just throwing out the measurements that its doing and trying to just figure it out on its own. Inside the program there is a "bed leveling wizard" i decide to try and run that. it asks me to manually adjust the printer head so that a piece of paper can just barely fit under the nozzle and the bed. I run through seemingly 14 or so points until it finishes.

So with everything back to zero ( as that was where i had the "most" success) i tried to print with the new leveling in place. get everything heated up, hit print, it goes through the G29 Bed leveling motions, and starts to print! currently i am trying to print Minecraft key chains i chose this because there is 4 models in each corner of the bed and i figured i would be able to get a more accurate representation of what was going on.
Well it started to print the perimeter than after about 5 seconds of moving along the x axis it would lift off the bed. not just a little bit but close to 1.5mm! So i stopped the print so try and figure out what was going on.

 

Fortunately i had the XXL controller installed so i was able to manually manipulate the x axis. so i started in the "home" position and slowly moved through the full range of motion and low and behold there it was, my x axis was a staggering 2mm out of level!

Now i assumed that both of the z axis would some how be tied together, if they were able to move up and down freely of each other it could most certainly cause the x axis to get way out of level. (One spins up and the other one stays stationary one side would than be higher than the other right?)

Just for curiosity sake i turned one of the Z axis threaded rods, and noticed that on slow movements just as i suspected, the other one wouldn't match the spinning, how ever on big solid movements they would both spin, albeit there was a lag between when the other side would actually respond but it would spin none the less. so i took the bottom of the robo off, which i had done many a time at this point to check if there was a belt or something that i maybe didn't see. sure enough there wasn't. It was just 2 stepper motors attached to the Z-axis coupler's directly tied to the threaded rods. so i knew at that point i would manually have to adjust the x axis to be as level as i could get it.I get out my trusty caliper and measure both sides and sure enough 2mm out from one side to the other, very slowly turn the high side down and am able to get it within .1mm of each other with i think is pretty decent.

I called robo just to see if there would be anything wrong with my printer and they just told me to keep an eye on it, and to contact them if it got worse.... the guy actually seemed confused when i was trying to explain to him that i didn't see how it would benefit anything to be able to control both threaded rods independently and how it could easily cause the X-axis to be out of level.

Now with what i assume to be one major problem out of the way i am back to my original problem of trying to get this "simple" software to just print the most basic of prints. well i made sure that all of the offsets were adjusted back to zero and tried a print again.

Well because of my adjustment i am happy to say that the printers x axis is actually able to print level... but just still not on the bed lol.

I happened to stumble across a setting on the XXL controller that actually lets me adjust the Z axis offset. so i tried to adjust it there to 1mm, and low and behold i was actuallly able to get it to put some plastic on the bed... HUZZA! after tweaking i was able to get it to get the first layer on before i stopped it, as i am still having printing errors. Still awaiting simplify to get back to me to help me set up their "simple" program. it would be handy as well to have them do up a support video like they have for a bunch of the other printers.

Needless to say i am learning quite a bit about this whole process, which in the long run will be very beneficial but MAN is it frustrating just to watch your money seemly floating on top of a river of shit, and all your trying to do is get a fishing pole to try and get some of it back.

if you actually read this whole thing i applaud you... perhaps you might have some suggestions? or perhaps can point me in the right direction of how i can get this software to print something decent i would VERY much appreciate it.


these are my latest first layer prints

 

Looks like your printing to close to the glass.
What is your 1st layer height set to in your slicer? most use .3
Then you adjust the M565 Z-1 up or down till you get the height your slicer is set to.
I would try M565 Z-.8 and see if it get better.
BTW both the start code you posted work the same. only the comments are a bit different.

 

to get that one print i was M565 Z-1 and my first layer height was .2, i just adjusted it to M565 Z-.8 and .3 im running a print right now to verify its better.

on a side note, i said in the post that i was aware that it was just commented out... i was just making a point that im trying EVERYTHING i can at this point lol

 

I too struggled with S3D, until I started reviewing the gcode output. Looking at the code (w/text editor) S3D says to start the 1st layer at Z=0.18 (90% of 0.2mm layer height) in a "comment section". However, the first G1 Z command asked for 0 mm height or 2.4mm height. As I just learning, I'm not sure why the switching around just yet.

Anyway, under the gcode tab of the process, I edit the Z offset to be a negative number to make the first height command to be G1 Z0.14 F1000. This makes a good 1st layer (slightly squashed), good adhesion, and the next layer sticks too.

I'm not sure of the magic behind the curtain (i.e. inside S3D), but if I adjust to make Z=0.14 to 0.16, then I'm running.

 

@mark tomlinson i have emailed them to open up a ticket.... how ever they certainly take their sweet time. i understand that they have a businss to run and that i am certainly not the only user that is experiencing trouble, but still... its been 4 days now and the only way i have actually gotten a response from them was to facebook them. i understand that i have paid for support, but i would rather not spend my time standing around with my finger up my butt waiting helplessly for some one to come and rescue me. its my issue, im just trying to find a way around it.

i have no doubt that this program will not be an asset for me, how ever only if i am able to figure it out.

 

@Greg Sheets hey ya i have been trying to mess with the z code offset but so far i havent had much luck with it. all though now that i have manuallly adjusted the x and z axis to be level and square i have been getting more consistant prints, i currently i am just struggleing with the thickness of pla that it is laying down.

 

I can see a bit of blue, so seeing that i think that it is at 1mm or under hight, because i was on instructables and happened to come across a instrucable on printing a speaker and so i decided to read it and he set the layer hight on 1mm and it was colorless. I don't use that program, i use matter control, so i don't know how to fix that but maybe you could change a setting to make it a bit higher.

PS when i opened this i noticed your pictures and i happened to be printing the exact same thing.
[file]minecraft stuff|none[/file]

 

Follow the steps in http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/read-me-my-robo-doesnt-auto-level-correctly-faq.4664/

printing off the bed when you have a level x axis is a matter of tuning. not likely a software problem (though it might be in your settings). And I say not software as in, it will do what its told. If your starting z code says offset is -1 it will auto level, return to center, go up 1mm (relative to center offset from G29) and then print. It sounds like your arbitrarily setting Z offset. Its a lot to read, and... well, I'm not a lawyer so I didn't read it all.

Schmalso. Is your pint head extruding nice strands if you raise the head and extrude manually?
If it's curling up instead of laying coils, you've got a partially obstructed nozzle. Which can be frustrating.

ALSO... if you're setting your z offset using software (reading the offset when you put a piece of paper under it. Make sure you're hitting home first. It doesn't know where it is till it's homed.

 

@defendermd i am quite positive that my x axis is level, i tuned it with my calipers. i ran along with what that auto level post you showed me, and i determined that my z offset is 0.8 so i plugged that into the script, so now my script reads

G1 Z5 F5000 ; lift Z by 5mm
G28 ; home all axes
M565 Z-0.84; set the offset for auto-leveling mechanism
G29 ; run auto-level
M300 S440 P200 ;A4: 440
G0 Z5

i ran it at -0.8 and i found it was still a tad too close to the bed, i was only getting .1 of a layer down ( as determined by my caliper when i chipped the pla off the bed). so i bumped it up to 0.84 and im certainly getting a layer down how ever its very inconsistent (see picture) it is very unlevel, when you run your finger over it you can tell that its not all one level. also it wont seem to print that perimeter off the axe. (which is why i believe i still have a leveling issue that i have to correct) To your comment about the extruder, when i raise it off the bed and extrude, the pla falls straight down and coils on the bed. so i am pretty sure that i don't have a partial clog.

 

I think the secret here is you were successfully printing before you used Simplify. Why would you think your threaded rods suddenly became a problem. It's the software. The Robo3D setting you loaded is just the basics. Not all printers are the same so you have to adjust the settings. I went through the same thing and yes it can be very frustrating. When you dish out $150 (I live in the USA) the frustration grows exponentially. You are printing to close to the bed. That's why you were printing "a river of shit". Since you are printing too low, the filament is jamming into the head. I suggest reseting everything to the beginning, then in the Gcode script where you see the M565 Z-1, adjust it in small increments. Start with Z-.5. If it's still too low, try -.8. If it's too high, try Z-.3. Adjust accordingly. You'll know when you hit the right number.
By the way, the code that Mike posted and the one you have is identical except for the "by 1 mm". Anything after the semicolon is a comment. It has no effect on the code itself.

 

Now of course, if you have your first layer set to print at 0% height or something, that could throw this whole thing off. As you're testing, set your layer height at .2/.3 and first layer at 100%. Get a poorly adhered cylinder on the bed. THEN adjust your print thickness.

Also, ensure the first button you hit is "home" when doing these tests.

 

thanks i will try this in the AM

 

I am a Simplify3D user prior to getting my R1. When I got the printer, I used MatterControl with the included PLA and had a lot of success. Switched to S3D and ABS and have spent quite a lot of time (with a bit more than little frustration) getting the settings dialed in. Right now, I'm running M565 Z-0.73 with a first level height of 95% and extrusion multiplier of 115%. I need to recalibrate the extrusion next to get that back down to 100%.

Still vastly prefer S3D to others, with it's multiple processes and support settings. For example, for smaller parts, I have one process that is used up to 2mm that slows movement way down and then another process at 2mm and above the goes back to regular speeds.

I've attached a 'factory file' that includes my ABS process settings. Before loading, make sure you save your current "File/Save Factory File As..." so you don't lose the progress you've made so far.

Jim

 

@James Harry thank you, i will try that

 

factory file seems to contain nothing. Can you export your process file and send that?

 

Here's the 'normal' ABS process file I use.

 

Is there a way to send simplify 3d supported models into mattercontrol

 

i too have problems finding the proper nozzle2glass hight out of the software. What i do is i make it print 3 rounds and adjust the hight by hand. Simple by grabbing both rods from the steppermotors and turn CW or CCW to finetune the hight. May not be the best way to do it, but it works really well.