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Clogged? Plastic won't feed

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Ashton Harris, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. Ashton Harris

    Ashton Harris New Member

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    So I got my printer yesterday evening. Calibrated, leveled, loaded it with filament and was on my way. Once I ran out of filament I never really thought how I should load new filament? Just like the first time, I heated up the nozzle to 230 centigrade, and applied even pressure hopefully it would come out. A very small bit a plastic came out but after than tiny bit, nothing more. Also the new filament I had loaded, you could see that it had not melted. I even tried to trim down the plastic and give it a smaller diameter before putting it through. Still won't work. I'm not sure what to try, I was using ABS and heard about a method where you take the nozzle and bathe it in Acetone. Good or Bad idea? Necessary? Any advice is welcome, thank you.
     
  2. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    that's a good one. you may want to try just getting some music wire, heating up the nozzle, and pushing it through backwards first
     
  3. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    'that's a good one' wasn't meant to be sarcastic. That method should work fine.
     
  4. Ashton Harris

    Ashton Harris New Member

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    Yeah, I think I'll try your method. I really don't feel like having to take it apart so hopefully that one looks. To get a better look I took off the body of the printer and used a light to look down the feeder, and its just a tiny little bit still there. Have you personally had luck with the method you recommended? I'm so eager to print haha, I appreciate your help
     
  5. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    I have a handful of methods I've used. ABS has a tendency to build up a little in the nozzle if you don't have your z calibration right or if your first layer is mushed in too much (we're talking nozzle essentially scraping the BP).
    Here are the methods I use:
    -heat up the nozzle, open the filament feed, push out any filament with an allen wrench that is 1.75mm in diameter or smaller. For whatever reason, this method has been less effective on the robo than on my other printers.
    -if that doesn't work, I try the music wire method. (here's a blog post on it, not mine: http://toybuilderlabs.com/blog/2013/8/23/unclogging-the-up-extrudernozzle)
    -if that doesn't work, I pull off the nozzle and torch it or acetone soak depending on whether it is a PLA or ABS clog.

    If you search around, there is a thread on here with some good discussion. Not sure if it's in troubleshooting or elsewhere.
     
  6. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    What was the last filament you were using and when it ran out how did it happen did it just come to the end and then stop moving when it went past the extruder were you able to pull the remainder out. There is a tube inside that the filament moves through after it passes the extruder so if you simply let it print until the filament disappeared then you probably have a large section of filament in that tube depending on what you did next may have resulted in jamming up the tube

    Also 230C is the max temp the extruder is supposed to be able to handle depending on how accurate your thermister readings are you may have exceeded the max temp if that happen the tube inside may have melted.

    Change out of filament only needs to be done at about 170-180 for PLA and maybe 180-190 for ABS at those temps the respective filament is softened enough to be removed. At this point I need to know a little more detail on exactly what process you followed.

    You should be able to open up the extruder section via the twos screws heat the extruder to the proper temp described previously and insert new filament and with it open it should easily move through the tube and push other material out of the nozzle until the new material is moving through the nozzle. Once that is done you close it all back up and you are done.

    It should not be more than this at all if it is you have a problem which could entail taking things apart.

    Please supply more details
     
  7. Ashton Harris

    Ashton Harris New Member

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    So I tried the one style above using a very small allen key, I almost got all of the filament out! But I do see just a little bit left, which is probably clogged. Any guidelines for taking off the extruder and all that stuff so I can properly get some Acetone in there? I though if I take a pipet, fill it with Acetone, I can just drip it from the pipet down to the extruder and what not. Is this a bad idea? or should I try dismantling the entire system...?
     
  8. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    I assume you are using ABS then
    Depending where the clog is you may be able to remove just the nozzle and at least you can see where the clog is at that point the tube you were working on in the heat sink should be clear as it is simply a holder to keep the tube cooler
    the nozzle has the heater and the thermister in it so it gets a bit tricky not to mess that up
    I would not put acetone down the hole directly as other things may react poorly with it
     
  9. Ashton Harris

    Ashton Harris New Member

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    Yesterday when I tried to take apart the nozzle and all that, I couldnt get that cylinder part out because some wires were in the way. Should I take out the two screws that are on the opposite side of the gears that move the filament?
     
  10. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    That is why it is tricky those two screws will allow the entire extruder to come off and if you are going to go that far then you are probably going to have to take it all apart which means you will have to have all the stuff on hand to put it back together. The trickiest thing I am talking about is the thermister. I got a new all metal hot end for mine and securing that thermister was the most difficult part on the new one. It will be the same when putting this one back together. they use kapton tape to hold it all together but I ended up using the hi temp sensor safe Ultra Copper silicone gasket maker and had to wait at least one hour to let it dry and then another 24 before I could test it.

    I would make absolutely sure you want to go down this path. I still am not sure how you got this clogged? What happened when you ran out of filament? How you replaced it with the new? and other details which would help in an assessment as to if this is really needed. The only thing I can surmise it that you were way to hot when doing things like this. Please give some additional details
    if you skype maybe I can help you more directly using the chat instead of waiting for responses here
    it is up to you
     
  11. Ashton Harris

    Ashton Harris New Member

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    sure whats is your skype user name
     
  12. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    look for Jeff Janes or jj.tesseract
     
  13. Iggy

    Iggy New Member

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    It appears I have some broken pieces of filament inside the printhead. I was printing, then ran out. So, I pushed a new lead into the head, but I didn't get any melting plastic... so, I tried to push a piece of filament with more force to push the pla through the printhead. the filament snapped off... so I've got one or two pieces of filament in the head, and nothing coming out the tip. Is there a diagram on how to remove the entire extruder, or might I have other options?
     
  14. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    first of all what type of filament

    Second yes there is a way to take thing apart but I do not think it is documented the first step would be to remove the two screws holding it on the x axis chassis one thing to note there are wires connected to the nozzle and that should be secured so they do not move much at all removing the two screws will be alittle hard because they actually cut in to the heat exchange part of the extrude to help secure it but once those bolts are out the entire assembly should slide out.

    now that second piece may simply drop out when you turn it upside down hopefully that will happen the first part that has actually been melted is going to be a bit more trouble some
    but in order to know what to do next I need to know the material type
    so put that in here and we can see what to do next
     
  15. Iggy

    Iggy New Member

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    PLA. Thanks...
     
  16. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    Iggy, I'm right there with you! That trick actually works well on my other printers, but I fear I have some taking stuff apart in my future with the robo.
    Isn't 3D printing fun :)
    ok... it still is.
     
  17. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    With PLA it becomes tricky because we don't have solvent that you can easily use to dissolve it.

    What makes it hard is that in order to get it apart you will most like have to heat it up so you need to keep it connected so you get the nozzle nice and hot and then trying to hold it unscrew the nozzle block from the mainblock
    but that is what you are gonna half to do
    but before doing so you need to ask yourself a question

    Do you want to do all this work and then still have a hot end that is not up to printing the latest and greatest of filament types. This hot end will only go to about 230C MAX and that gets it done for ABS but nothing more elaborate

    You can upgrade to the e3d all metal hot end for about 39 english pounds and it will be easier than this but I will try and explain it as if you want to keep this one you can decide on the e3d one by yourself

    For this you can try and unscrew the brass fixture from the main body if it does not come apart then you may have to warm up the nozzle end to get it to loosen up. once it is apart you should be able to easily push out the extra filament than may be stuck in the tube if there is any the other part is a bit harder.

    but Ill get to that
    with the main part separate you should be able to see inside and see the tube teh filament moves through make sure it is nice and smooth and that you do not see any obstructions once it is clear you can set it aside if it flled with junk you need to move a long length of filament in and out to clean that up it should be smooth. If you happened to get it to hot then the tube may have melted and if that happened go order the E3D hot end because this one is trashed.

    Ok so now the main part is clean and you are going start breaking down the brass section you should be able to see down into the area where the filament melts and it may be solid depending on how bad it is but you need to slowly start digging out that area heating the the hot end will make it hard to hold while cleaning but may have to be done so the filament can be removed I used picks drill bits and everything I could think of to remove all the garbage that was the easy part the hard part comes when most of it clear but the nozzle is still clogged then you need to work slowly and carefully to gently work something to that hole I used a single strand of some 22 gauge stranded wire I had around and slowly worked it back and forth until I finally broke through and was able to get out some of the material from the tip gently work that small metal wire back and forth and try to make it as clean and smooth as possible onr thing I did was to put length through the nozzle tip and the krinkle the wire up some and the pull it through with force so ti would grab at little bits and pieces as it went through once both side are clear I would try and blow some canned air through it as well to make sure but then you can re assembly and try again.

    Going back together should be pretty simple jsut make sure you do that last tightening of the brass block and that main part while the brass part is warm to make sure you get a good tight seal.

    Also never bring this hot end up to 230C or higher it can and will melt.

    never let the end of the filament go past the hobbed bolt or else you could end up doing all this again
    always leave a bit at the end for easy removal

    As far as putting it back in the extruder housing look for two marks on the main part of the hot end in the small grooved out area toward the top try and aligning thosw with the screw holes as you slide it into its hole in the extruder assembly it will make things go a bi easier but if you don't it is not critical try and make it so the nozzle is on the extreme outside though so you get the best usage of your bed space
    then put the screws back in they will go in almost all the way then get hard to turn as the actually cut into the main part of the hot end locking it in place.

    Heat it all up and open up the extruder and insert new filament it should go straight down and into the nozzle area where with some additional pressure it should extrude normally lock it all up with the spring loaded screws and you are done.

    anyway I hope this help
     
  18. Iggy

    Iggy New Member

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    Is this the model e3d you are referring to: E3D-v5 All metal HotEnd - 1.75mm Direct Extrusion? If I decide to make this replacement, is this more or less a simple swap out?
     
  19. Iggy

    Iggy New Member

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    Matt: Yes, even with the troubleshooting, it's fun. I figure I'll be smarter after I rip one of these units apart and put it back together....
     
  20. tesseract

    tesseract Moderator
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    It needs to be assembled and there is one kind of gotcha I recommend preparing for but yes it is a simple swap
    The gotcha is this and it is not that big if you know it coming they use kapton tape to hold things in place now for the life of me I have very rarely got kapton tape to actually stick to anything even itself and this some thing that moves around get bumped heats up cools down basicall not a real friendly environment so the likelihood that it will come loose and allow other thing to come loose is for me at least high.

    The solution is to go the the autoparts store and get this product
    Permatex Ultra Copper Sensor Safe High Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker
    it is orange silicone sealer basically but resistant to high temperatures it dries in about an hour and cures in 24 hours
    use that to lock the thermister in place. There is a small hole thatyou will put this thermister into I recommend put a tiny ball of tin foil in teh hole first and then push the thermister in behind it the tinfoil will deform and match the shape of both tthe hole and the thermister then cover it with a health dab of the ultra copper stuff making sure it does not end up with any portion of the glob lower than the nozzle tip. Let it dry and then cure and then continue doing this will result in the absolute best end result and you will be happy. Do it as a last step right before you heat it up and do the final tightening then install it where the old one went and you are good to go.

    IT is a gotcha but at least you know how to deal with it ahead of time the rest is pretty easy just follow the instruction that come with it 2013-09-29 22.24.32.jpg
    This is my E3D with the ultra Copper the hole for the thermister is on the left side and is completely covered if you look carefully you can see the wires going into the hole, the indentation on the left side. That thermister is not going anywhere until I decide otherwise. The right side is the actual heater and you can see the ultra copper is not affected by this amount of heat.

    Been running this setup a few months now at least, no issues.

    Good luck and don't forget to ask if you have more questions.
     
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