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Answered Flow Cube a Mess, Model a Mess

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Kotaztrafee, Jun 12, 2023.

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  1. Kotaztrafee

    Kotaztrafee New Member

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    Hello everyone,I print with ASA and have very little problems other than ringing which I cleared up but now have this miserable condition that I can not pinpoint with settings. I tried to take my settings back to standard with no help. Though 40 mm/s might be high for ASA I was printing fine at that speed on my QIDI X Plus for many prints. The language barrier makes it tough to get solid answers from QIDI so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

    Two sides of the cube print smooth while the other two and the bottom are a mess. The results of the test suggests I should run at 37% flow.. hehehehe Do I have a mechanical issue here or whhhhaaaaat?!

    I have included photos of my model and the problems I am having with it. Once I cleared up the ringing (mostly by making consistent layer heights) a bulge at the seam and zits appeared. I again and again tried all the settings from temperature, speed, acceleration, retraction, clean nozzle and more with no help. Now the layers are just blobs. I also switched to my all metal extruder and have the same problem. I have the same problem with Prusaslicer or Cura. I am using 100 degree bed which I have used exclusively in the past with no problem so I don't think it is heat creep. All my filament is kept in dry bins and I did try two different brands.
     

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  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I assume you referenced this :
    https://www.simplify3d.com/resources/print-quality-troubleshooting/

    or this:
    https://all3dp.com/2/3d-print-quality-12-tips-on-how-to-improve-it/

    or this:
    https://www.matterhackers.com/articles/3d-printer-troubleshooting-guide

    Specifically: https://www.simplify3d.com/resources/print-quality-troubleshooting/lines-on-the-side-of-print/

    Blobs and Zits: https://www.simplify3d.com/resources/print-quality-troubleshooting/blobs-and-zits/

    It looks like slop from a loose axis (belt loose, bearing loose, something like that).
    It is causing overshoot on the end of that axis when it yanks the head back the other way.
    Over extrusion can make this worse,
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Jun 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2023
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    generic "over extrusion" would bulge layers all around (not just one side)
    Cut the acceleration numbers in half and see if that help...
     
  4. Kotaztrafee

    Kotaztrafee New Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply with the links. Of all the issues I feel like over extrusion matches the best. I have adjusted the flow from 37% to 130% with no help since lower flow makes for poor adhesion and model strength. I was unable to find a happy medium and keep in mind that I have printed many of my model without this issue.

    I am being led to believe that it is a mechanical problem too and the jerking idea on the cube makes a lot of sense to me but when watching it print, my model, it seems to be..... print blob stop blob print blob stop blob print blob stop blob print blob. As though the gear is grabbing then not grabbing but I checked and cleaned that all out. I'm trying to use my endoscope to get video of it printing but haven't got good quality video at this time.
    I have suspected bad belts and finally got them from china but it looks like a hell of a job replacing them and I held off. I tightened and loosened the Y Axis belts til I found what seemed to be good but that was before this problem. CHEP says the tighter the belt the better but I found a tight belt hurt my results, and again, this was before this current problem. The X Axis belt is my biggest suspect if it is a mechanical issue.

    Also, as you expressed, it could have to do with acceleration since it was when I started messing with that for eliminating ringing that the problem seemed to start. But, again, I have printed many many models without this problem using factory settings. I have in fact reset everything to factory settings to try and start over but with no help.

    As you can see in my real model example it only seems to effect the starting layers of the model and could correlate with the number of bottom layers I have (10).

    I have asked QIDI for their opinions but I just keep getting the same reply of adjusting the flow and I have done that til it makes me sick.
    Here is another Image that was the first indication of something wrong before it just kept getting worse. I tried changing the coasting path retraction and combing but things just kept getting worse. Maybe that will give you a hint.

    Thank you very much for your time and careful thoughts.
     

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  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That sounds exactly like belt skip/slip. The blob is because the belt is not moving, but the nozzle is still extruding.
    Now I say "belt slip/skip" but however the nozzle is being moved (belt, linear drive screw/whatever) it is not smoothly driving it.
    The magic of belt tightening is tight, but not too tight :) If you watched any of Tom Sanlanders videos
    I am pretty sure you get the same advice :) The toothed belts needs to be tight enough not the skip gears/teeth on the drive belt, but too tight will cause it to bind.
     
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    P.S. If the last picture is the bottom of the print then that bottom layer on the last print you posted is pretty much classic bed not level.

    When we say that what we really mean has nothing to do with "level" like for a carpenter, but "level" in that the nozzle stays the same distance off of the bed no matter where on the bed the nozzle is at. By level we mean that the bed is the same height with respect to the nozzle all across the bed.

    If that is the side of the print then -- you have slip/skip on that drive axis.
     
  7. Kotaztrafee

    Kotaztrafee New Member

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    Thanks again for your reply.
    I am currently investigating that it is my file. Around the same time that everything seemed to be going wrong I decimated my model in Blender to try and get a smaller file size. I may have gone to small. While preparing a piece of the model for QIDI to print I could see that the section is very decimated with long lines. Perhaps the extruder is starting and stopping at these points or something. I am going to try and print the large file but I think I tried that before.

    I just don't see strong evidence of a bad belt or bearing or anything on the machine. ARGHHHH

    Oh, that's right.....I tried printing other models and got the same results. I wana cry.
     
  8. Kotaztrafee

    Kotaztrafee New Member

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    OK, SO, I printed the lower portion of my model with a finer mesh and it helped a lot. I can still see concerns but I think that is because of using an all metal hotend while I wait for my new normal hotend. I was never able to get great results form the all metal but I knew it worked good enough. Maybe now I will try again to tune it in for ASA. What is your opinion of using an All Metal with ASA?

    I seen some blobbing on the bottom inside layers that I think can be adjusted. I'm not saying the problem is solved but I see a big improvement.

    But I don't think this explains why the Flow Test Cube is such a mess.

    QIDI is telling me to use "turbo fans" on the ASA. Everything I ever researched says no fans. Have you ever heard of using fans on ASA?
     

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    #8 Kotaztrafee, Jun 12, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2023
  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Which really points to a hardware problem :)
     
  10. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I have never had an issue with an all-metal hotend that was not somehow related to bad hardware (like the extruder cooling fan failing). If that is not working your prints will quickly turn to crap.

    I am not sure what they are saying... the extruder cooling fan is single speed so perhaps they mean the part cooling fan. That makes sense although Robo has no "turbo" mode so just make sure that the parts fan is set to 100% after the first couple of layers. THEN -- make sure it is actually working :) if it dies you will also get crappy prints, but not as suddenly or consistently as if the extruder cooling fan dies.

    and to be clear -- the extruder cooling fan is mounted directly the the side of the extruder and cools only the fins of the extruder. The Parts fan blows air on the part you are printing.
     
    #10 mark tomlinson, Jun 13, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2023
  11. Kotaztrafee

    Kotaztrafee New Member

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    Replaced the X belt. The original belt was stretched and the adjustment was at max. I now have a tighter belt.

    I ran the lower portion of the model and it doesn't have the blobs but I am 99% sure the blobs were coming from an over decimated mesh. It looks like I can get away with a 50% decimated mesh. There is some over-extrusion on the bottom layers but I think I can clear that up with the normal hotend (when it comes in) and some minor adjustments.

    Thanks for your time
     
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