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Unresolved Long term trouble getting good prints

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Jimwahhh, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. Jimwahhh

    Jimwahhh Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I've got a Robo3D Kickstarter which I've been using intermittently for the last however long that has been and have had very mild success in that time. I am using ABS, I never got any PLA with the machine and have kinda just been trying to power on with ABS because it's what I want to use for most prints. I was just wondering if I could get some help getting something half reasonable out of this thing before I get frustrated and put it away for a month or so yet again.

    So far the mods I have had to do are installing a relay so the heated bed doesn't cut out, a little holster for the z-limit switch to locate it better, a small duct to direct the cooling fan a little better and some LEDs (which have made it brighter than the sun).

    That said I do still have the occasional bed adhesion issue (better now with no cooling fan and a bit of hairspray) and I am really not convinced I am getting my bed super level and the starting height accurate. I don't have auto bed leveling so currently I get the z-limit close and then manually tweak the threaded rods while it is doing its skirts. I wouldn't be against upgrading to auto leveling if people thing it's worth it. It just seems like most people talk about doing this with a newer version of the Robo than mine so I'm not sure about what I need etc.

    I have attached some pics of a Calibration piece I printed last night. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. To me it seems to be a mixture of too hot, under extrusion and probably needing the fan on for quick layers. My current settings are 215 extruder, 90 bed.

    Thanks again for your help guys!
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 Jimwahhh, Dec 12, 2015
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    First, ABS is simply harder to use because the Robo lacks a heated chamber. It just is.
    Does not mean it is unusable, I have printed a decent chunk of stuff with it, but it makes it harder.

    The need to use ABS might not be what it was when the Robo was initially released there are a lot of other materials available.
    I leave that up to you to research. Most of the 'other materials' are far easier to print on the Robo.

    Your approach to leveling is fine. It helps to get it completely level (but it can be a challenge on the Beta units). As long is it is level then it will print. For the record for a few bucks and some time you can add auto-leveling to the beta (I have done several). 5 bucks or less for the switches and some wire, reload the firmware and you are done.

    Now suggestions:

    First:
    calibrate the extruder.
    http://community.robo3d.com/index.php?threads/read-me-estep-calibration-faq.4672/#post-41287

    Second:
    You need to use the parts fan on ABS after the first couple of layers and you need to set a minimum time per layer so that it slows down at the smaller layers. That will fix the 'too hot at the top' issues with your calibration object.

    Not sure if you used 100% infill on that model or not, the infill looks a little manky (what can be seen). You should add more top and bottom layers. Looks like you have too few since the infill is visible. The default for most slicers is 2 or maybe 3 and at 0.2 mm height that is not a heck of a lot :) Get at least 1mm top/bottom.
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Dec 12, 2015
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    P.S. I have two kickstarter versions that have been upgraded. One is essentially the same as the latest R1+ and the other sort of a blend :) Don't invest the money in the upgrades until you use the printer enough to justify it, but it is doable.
     
    #3 mark tomlinson, Dec 12, 2015
  4. Jimwahhh

    Jimwahhh Member

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    Thanks for the pointers Mark.

    1. Thanks for that, I hadn't seen that but it looks like it is well worth a shot.
    2. The reason I have the fan turned off is because I was finding that the cooling was causing the prints to lift. I am a bit hesitant to put it back on but perhaps if I get those settings right it won't be on too early in the print and with the duct it shouldn't go too much on the bed.
    3. That was at 20% infill. You are right, I am using the default 2 layers top and bottom but I'll increase that to 5. Seems a lot but I'll try anything.

    I know exactly what you mean about upgrading. My intermittent use is why I haven't done Auto-Leveling, e3d, enclosure, SD/LCD screen, threaded rod and linear bearing upgrades. That said it's a bit of a chicken and egg deal. These troubles are a big part of the reason that I don't use this thing more, so if doing the upgrades mean that it is actually fun to use rather than setting up, trouble shooting and putting away then it's probably worth it. Either that or sell the thing to someone who has more time/money to do them and buy something that is a little more plug and play.

    Thanks again for your help, really appreciate it.

    James.
     
    #4 Jimwahhh, Dec 12, 2015
  5. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    ABS wants to warp when it changes temperatures dramatically.
    So lifting, warping, curling is part and parcel of ABS. You can minimize it, but without a way to control the printed environment you can not totally eliminate it. I would strongly suggest you investigate other filaments that offer the properties you need :)

    It is not just ABS and PLA any more here is a small sample list (these are from Taulman -- there are others):

    441542.png

    As you can see ABS is not king of the hill. Not even the thermal properties of ABS win (transition temperature and heat tolerance). Others (like BluPrint) are just as good there as well.
     
    #5 mark tomlinson, Dec 12, 2015
  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    5 or sometimes 6 top/bottom layers is more in-line with what I normally use.
    You can just slow the print down by using a minimum layer print time and not use the fan.
    Set it to say 1 minute... then it will wait at least that long for the layer to cool.
     
    #6 mark tomlinson, Dec 12, 2015
  7. Jimwahhh

    Jimwahhh Member

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    Pity considering I bought a whole bunch of ABS out of the gate, but perhaps you are right about biting the bullet and putting ABS on the backburner until I get the thing really dialed in with something a bit easier. I have been kind of thinking about it as binary (ABS or PLA) but obviously that thinking is a bit outdated now...

    Also, if it really is that cheap and easy to do the auto leveling then it might be worth giving a shot. Is there a walk through to add these to the beta units that you are aware of? And as far as picking a filament to try for now, any suggestions? The things I wasn't as keen on with PLA was that it would warp in the sun and as far as mechanical applications it's more brittle/less tough.
     
    #7 Jimwahhh, Dec 13, 2015
  8. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    BluPrint has thermal properties similar to ABS (Tg is 110c). If thermal stability in high temperatures is a key factor then it would be good. Alloy 910 is not bad (Tg is a little lower than BluPrint or ABS at 90c -- remember ABS is somewhere between 80 to 125, but most are around 110). Polycarbonate is some of the best at 150c, but is a little touchy to dial in. You have to look at your needs and balance strength versus heat stability. If you need both 'to the max' then Polycarbonate is the answer and you deal with the touchiness :)
     
    #8 mark tomlinson, Dec 13, 2015

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