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Power timer mod. Power down when print is finished

Discussion in 'Mods and Upgrades' started by tonycstech, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Sorry its hard for me to understand what you say without any illustration not explain my point to anyone without it.
    I was testing 3 pins on the picture.
    With M80 there is no power in any of them
    With M81 1st from the bottom and 3rd are powered at 4.9v
    I dont have to turn it on with M80, its ON by default when 110v is ON.
    DSC0282_large.jpg
     
  2. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Tony,
    Those are the correct pins. You should be also taking the ground reference from the pin on the other side of the reset button. Ignore the pin labeled 5V in the middle of P_On and VCC it not connected to anything. The three pins you need are highlighted in red here:

    RAMPS.png
    From: http://reprap.org/wiki/File:Arduinomega1-4connectors.png

    BTW - what software are you using for 3D design. My son and I are getting a bit annoyed with the free Sketchup Make software.
     
  3. Melody Bliss

    Melody Bliss New Member

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    Steve, have you tries TinkerCad? Owned by autodesk. It's a web based CAD software.

    http://tinkercad.com

    Also if you or your son is into programming, a very powerful programmatic CAD is OpenSCAD. The customizable objects on thingiverse are made using OpenSCAD.

    http://www.openscad.org/

    I have a paper I did for a conference this past weekend introducing people to it titled "A Brief Introduction to OpenSCAD" which is on Google Docs

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eIslg7hVF38ni9nQkpE6Ejdfuj6HPQUInyHH8zcNKNM

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Hi Melody,
    I did look at your OpenSCAD paper when you posted it and it is really very nice. I plan to go over it with my son. He is 14 and has done some Python (http://www.codeskulptor.org/) and Arduino programming. I also planned to show OpenSCAD to my daughter who is taking precalc now to show her that she can plot interesting looking functions and print them! We will take a look at tinkercad.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
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  5. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Tony,
    Also - the 3rd pin in from the edge labeled VCC should always have about 5V on it relative to the GND pin indicated. If not there is something very wrong.

    Remember that our logic is going to be flipped from the G80/81 G-code convention. G81 (logic High) will be used to turn on or keep on the power supply. G80 (logic Low) will be used to turn it off.
     
  6. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    I was lucky enough to get my self used 3ds max from ebay for $100 or so to model my things.
    Blender is a very powerful application, but its most complicated as well. Its made by community so UI is not very friendly or has any standard behavior.

    I was poking around with tester and i thought you said something gets grounded ?
    "M80 ;Turn on P_ON - Pin goes to GND"
    Then why when i connected my tested to the PS 12v output and to P_ON pin i had constant voltage about 7v rather then 12v or 0 when its off m y M81 ?
    I think i misinterpreted this one :)

    Thats ok, 5v relay is coming. It will pass 12v on to the 12v relay that will trigger 110v as i plan in this picture:
    1.jpg
     
  7. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Tony,

    When I said the P_On pin is grounded that means that the Atmel micro's internal driver is attempting to sink any current to GND basically through a PMOS transistor. Another way to say this is that the Atmel is driving Low or logic 0.

    1 ) Please whenever you make a voltage measurement like this put one multimeter lead on a proper ground reference which is this case is the GND pin on the other side of the reset switch! Probing from the +12V side back at the power supply is very wrong. I can elaborate if you want.

    2) Your two relay circuit is unnecessary as described above if that "5V relay" is the relay module board you mentioned earlier from ebay. I thought you bought this one. Here is your link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Channel-O...794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acf24557a. If so, this relay can support that power supply just fine. The second relay is a waste of parts, wiring and time. Please explain why you think otherwise - just in case I missed something silly but I doubt it. If the 5V relay in your drawing is not that module and is a simple relay with no driver circuit inside it will not work. The Arduino's Atmel microprocessor cannot reliably source or sink enough current to activate the relay and it may damage the driver in the micro. Also the coil's back EMF will spike a large voltage into the micro. The ebay relay module has protection for this.

    3) Besides the possible 5V relay issue there is a problem with your drawing. If the system working with the XXL LCD controller and the USB is not plugged in then when you switch from OFF to ON the power supply will be momentarily interrupted and the power rails will glitch and crash the software in both the Arduino and the XXL LCD :mad:. In my circuit I suggest that the second power switch just short out the relay to get things started.

    So if you follow my "So finally in summary to make this work:" in the post above it will all work and is pretty simple and cheep. I will be happy to explain further. I'm waiting for deliver of that relay module and will try it.
     
  8. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    yes that the 5v relay i bought from ebay.
    So this relay can switch 110v ?
    I kinda think its too small for that but i guess u know better.
    3) is Incorrect:
    Look at the drawing. When switch is OFF, 110v is fed to the PS.
    When switch is ON, relays have ALREADY routed 110v to the PS , so there is no interruption because 110v is flowing from both ends already and only 1 gets cut off when switch is flipped.
    I just didnt show it in the picture dont know why, but i had it in mind the right way.

    Here is another corrected illustration, i guess it will make sense.
    0.jpg
    Here you can see that switch ON is bypassed so that 12v relay (that gets activated by 5v relay as soon as printer boots up) is already supplying 110v to the PS as well as the switch in OFF position does the same.
    So when i flip the switch, 12v is already feeding 110v to PS so there is no interruption.
    I kinda had to think about this again now that you bought it up, thanks :)
     
  9. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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  10. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    I saw that too :eek:
    Home wiring is 10A-15A so it make sense just to use one relay instead of 2.
    So then all i need get home and play with it
     
  11. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Ok GOT it.
    Works like a charm with that one relay from ebay.
    Connected as illustrated on:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Nice! Good news that it works. One of us should fix up the diagram, add links to the relay module and post it to Melody's FAQ. I've been running a lot of overnight prints and I think this will be useful to others.

    Make sure you put standoffs and a cover of some sort over the module so the 110V is not out in the open.

    Is your 3DS Max license a regular one or an Education one? I know the edu one has watermarks but don't know if it can export STL files without some sort of corruption.
     
  13. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Educational is fully functional from what i know has no restrictions other then watermark.
    I also know that if u make a scene in educational version and then open it in licensed version, it will give u warning saying "it was created using educational version etc" giving u no right to modify or sell or something.
    No i have single user stand alone.

    3ds max is not best CAD design, its more for character animation and modeling some things for games and videos.
    It has no CAT features as to make screws/threads etc. You can still make it, but it will take much longer and will require more skill and knowledge of more tools it comes with.
     
  14. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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  15. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tony,
    Two problems.

    First as drawn I think you bypassed the line fuse. This is a really bad idea! Please fix it ASAP.

    Second, the black represents the HOT AC terminal and white represent NEUTRAL (ignoring the strange wire colors in the Robo3D). This is the usual convention. You show switching the White/Neutral/Return line and keeping the hot line attached. This is backwards and a bad practice. You must swap it.

    Also, assuming the black and white are swapped correctly, I think the wiring be a bit simpler if you:
    • connect the Wall plug Hot directly to one side of relay contact
    • other side of relay contact to PSU Hot input
    • Just use the relay connect switch to short across the relay contacts until the printing starts

    Also, it looks like you bypassed the Robo3D's power switch. You might as well have used this switch to short out the relay instead of the new one. My preference would be to keep the Robo3D's switch in place before everything. Otherwise you have hot circuitry inside when the plug is in. This seems like a bad practice.

    Please put the fuse back in the circuit!
     
  16. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    Well then. To me it seems all i do is a bad idea.
    It works for me and i dont see anybody showing anything else.
    Would you make a picture that would be easy for everyone to understand ?

    In my case HOT is white. They are not swapped or anything, i just wanted to CUT 1 off my switch so to me it did not matter which one gets cut off.
    As long as 1 of 2 gets cut off there there is no power.
    I am no electrician but i know there is no power coming from 1 wire

    LOL i had no idea there was a fuse. I was about to make my own :)
     
  17. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    Tony, Please I'm just trying to help, I'm trying to be accurate. Switching a Neutral line is bad. No AC fuse is bad. Everything else you have done is great. I'm sorry about not providing a diagram but I have been too busy with my kids activities lately. 6 hours at a swim meet yesterday. OK - your diagram and the AC plug input photo within show the Neutral being switched. You show Neutral as white. To prove this pull out the AC plug and look at the markings. With the middle ground facing up the Left side is Neutral and the Right side is 'L' which means Line or HOT. I marked your photo below in that position.

    AC PLUG IN.png

    I am an engineer and I can tell you that power can come from one wire! To explain - if you touch that one hot AC wire even if you have rubber soles on your shoes and touch nothing else, your body is capacitively coupled to ground and that AC voltage will shock you. I learned this when I was five and stuck a hairpin in the wrong side of an outlet!

    That said - your circuit will work to switch to printer off but you should fix these issues.
     
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  18. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    I got the ebay relay module in the mail. It looks like you already figured out that the control input logic is LOW to energize. So the original G-Code logic will work:

    • The G-c0de startup script then contains:
    M80 ;Turn on P_ON - Pin goes to GND
    G4 P5000 ; wait 5 seconds
    • The G-code finish script contains:
    M81 ; Turn off P_ON - Pin goes to 5V
    This will work fine for both use cases - an SD card controller is driving the printer or if the USB port is driving the printer.
     
  19. SteveC

    SteveC Well-Known Member

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    "I learned this when I was five and stuck a hairpin in the wrong side of an outlet! "
    If I had touched the Neutral I would have been just fine and would not have learned anything:rolleyes:. Remember that the Neutral is connected to the safety ground back in your circuit breaker box and they are both connected to all the water pipes in your house.
     
  20. tonycstech

    tonycstech Active Member

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    U gotta touch both or be grounded to get shocked.
    I didnt know there was a fuse, so... . :oops:
    To fix my thing all i did was i swapped black with white at the inlet and connected black to fuse.
    Rest is correct. :D

    Too much panic on your end:eek: So what if i was to kill my self or the printer. I am more certain of where i go after death then my printer :)
    220v didnt kill me once out of dozen times i was shocked since 12 years old, so GOOD LUCK for 110v LOL :D
     

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