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Unanswered S3D, Retraction, and Wispy Strings...

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Toro1966, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    You are making an assumption. It might be retracting near there for another reason.
    You are going to need to experiment (sorry if that was not clear). Most of 3d Printing is not an exact science due to differences in printers. Look at the 3D prin troubleshooting guides if you doubt that. :)
    Find the secret sauce that works for you

    Do it at the correct temperature for your main filament.

    Model geometry will play into stringing ... again not an exact science in the sense that so many variables are going to affect everything.
     
  2. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks Mark - I do understand experimenting is necessary and trust me when I tell you that I read as much as I can - to include the troubleshooting guide about 100 times. I practically have it memorized. What I have an issue is experimenting at random. Unfortunately, even if I liked that method, I simply don't have the time to do it. That's why I am trying to get an opinion on settings to change first - rather than "here's all of the settings, change them and observe until your print looks good."

    I think what I will try first is to calibrate the extruder again. 205 extrudes fine, but is too hot based on print quality. So I am going to lower it, calibrate, and print some calibration triangles. Once I have that done, I am going to try "extra retract distance" and put that slightly negative. Then I'll print some cylinders and see if I still get the retraction marks. Will post some pics when I'm done this evening.

    Thanks again for all of your time!
     
  3. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Excellent ideas :)

    One last note: You will find that different filament types can have minor differences in extrusion. So, I personally just adjust the extrusion % to fiddle with that little difference. Keep the extruder calibrated for the normal case and tweak that as needed.
     
    #23 mark tomlinson, Sep 13, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2016
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  4. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I've found the bumps can be perfect one day and not the next. :). Post clean up with an exacting knife or sandpaper then paint. By all means tweak until it's close but perfection is a unicorn :)

    Personal opinion :D
     
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  5. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    "Perfection is a Unicorn"

    Going on a sign in my cubical at work.
     
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  6. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    • Voltaire: “The best is the enemy of the good.”
    Best translated as "Perfect is the enemy of good"
     
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  7. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks guys - You're all of course correct. Unfortunately, my OCD prevents me from leaving well enough alone :)

    Truth is, other than the zits, the prints were/are coming out very nice. And the zits aren't big, just a lot of them. I know you are correct, sand and finish is the answer, but my sons Robo doesn't do it - so why should mine? Even more frustrated today. All I did was recalibrate the extruder for a lower temp and try and print a test cylinder. No matter what I did, and what I changed, I ended up with two lines (where the retractions were). No zits, lines. Think it might be the model so I decided to say screw it and print a 9 hour more complex piece :)

    Here is the cylinder. Again - no matter what settings I changed, retraction, wipe, open spaces, restart distance - symptoms were the same and the lines match the retractions as shown in the S3D preview pane.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If you put retraction at 3.0 what's the cylinder look like
     
  9. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    I have to say it though I try not to... Don't forget we are layer at a time, not injection. We arnt going to catch that unicorn but can get darn close
     
  10. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    I'll check Geof. Right now it's at 1.6. I still have retraction speed at 40. I probably need to increase the speed to 50 as you mentioned. I can go to 3.0 for retraction but does that not seem like a lot? This is absolutely a question and not pushing back as I have no doubt you know much more than I do.
     
  11. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    I just know this didn't do this until recently and my son's doesn't do it, so I would love to try and fix the line/zits.

    I am printing a rather long print now with a lot of retractions because it is a column of sorts with four posts and it retracts all around the posts according to the preview. Interested to see how it turns out. It should actually do exactly what it was doing before since I really didn't keep any of the changes. Ironically, if it looks great, I'll have no idea why :)
     
  12. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Not a contest and by all means question everything :). My thought is go drastic and work down. Just to see if the change is noticeable or not. I always go extreme and work down with baby steps. Then keep notes of each print until I find one I like.
     
  13. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    LOL if it looks great then you know it's just the model and can move on to the next one. Each machine handles things different. Speed of printing is a direct relation to print quality as well, as are layer sizes
     
  14. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Still printing this new model and although the columns are thin (a little hard to see the retraction points) - I can still slightly make them out. They don't however look like zits. They look almost like little tiny gaps at the retraction points. Very similar to the cylinder above. In the cylinder you can see the line caused by the retraction points. Could it be that I am retracting too much? If so, should I change this with extrusion multiplier, reduce the retraction distance, or add restart?

    I could be completely wrong, however, with what I am seeing now and the line on the cylinder (which I made 4 times) I was always increasing retraction, not reducing it. And there is absolutely zero stringing right now in this print. Not that that's a bad thing, but could also be, when combined with the other symptoms, possibly a result of over retraction. Am I off base or does that sound plausible?
     
  15. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Very possible ! A blob is not enough a missing spot could be to much. That's why I said go big to see what over retraction does then lower retraction to a happy setting :)
     
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  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Randomize the layer start points and it will not be a 'line' any longer.
     
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  17. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks mark - I did do that. My print this morning looks pretty good because of the geometry, but if I look close I can still see those divots. I am going to try and reduce my retraction and see what I get. I also might increase my extrusion multiplier as well. it is currently at 1 so I think I will go to 1.05.
     
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  18. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, you are going to need to experiment to get any fine detail like that corrected and the changes will be mostly printer specific.
     
  19. Toro1966

    Toro1966 Active Member

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    Thanks again Mark. I appreciate you guys putting up with my OCD :)
     
  20. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    At least you aren't so bad that you call it CDO because you couldn't stand the letters not being in alphabetical order. :)
     
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