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Unresolved Auto-Leveling triggering in mid-air

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by cbale2000, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    Well I finally got my first real print on my R1+ to work yesterday and as I was moving onto the second my printer started acting strange. It seemed to start the part alright, but as it progressed it started laying out material too high. By the time I stopped it, it was laying material a good inch above the surface of the bed (and it was only a few minutes into the print, on layer 2 or 3).

    Upon further investigation I noticed that during the auto-leveling phase of each build, the printer would work as normal for points (the spots it touches on the platform) 1-3, then on points 4 and 5 it would move and stop in mid air and then move onto the next point. Points 6-8 worked fine and point 9 also stopped in mid air.

    I'm not sure what would have caused this, I've made no changes to my settings since my first print. Any thoughts?

    I'm using the MatterControl software that came with the printer, with mostly default settings (I only changed small things like build speed and infill %). The software seems to be set to "Hardware Leveling" (as I assume it was by default).

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Hi there. One of your z axis switches is most likely stuck or out of position
     
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  3. Ocsff

    Ocsff Active Member

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    Check your z axis switches and make sure the carriage is level. usual cause is z axis switch not seated
     
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  4. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    So, after testing with a multi-meter, it looks like the switches are operating correctly by themselves, but that the carriage doesn't always push them down all the way for some reason. Does something need to be lubricated perhaps (there was a tube of lube in the box)?

    Also worth noting, it appears that the "Home Z" function doesn't do anything now, even when both Z switches are down and triggered (manual control of the Z-axis still works fine though).
     
    #4 cbale2000, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  5. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    So apparently the left side z-axis lead screw was WAY out of position relative to the right side. I adjusted the screw manually to align them and it seemed to correct this issue for now. Not sure what would have caused this in the first place though.

    Any suggestions for avoiding this problem in the future?
     
  6. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    The X axis brackets actually move pretty easy up and down the Z axis when there is no power to the Z axis motors. Even just pulling out or inserting filament can move them. You just need to be mindful of that.
     
  7. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    Shouldn't zeroing the Z axis between builds correct for those small movements over time? Or are you suggesting that there might have been a significant enough change that happened suddenly?

    Does zeroing the Z axis correct for unevenness between the two lead screws at all?
     
  8. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    No and No

    That is what the auto-level sequence is for, and the auto-leveling in Marlin is far from perfect. It does not really take into account any significant tilt in the bed and works much better if you are fairly level to begin with.
     
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  9. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    I don't mean tilt in the bed, I'm talking tilt along the X carriage between the two Z lead screws (the screw on one side gets lower than the other, causing the carriage to be high on one side and low on the other).

    I would have figured that since each side has a limit switch the homing or auto-level would correct imbalances?
     
  10. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    No if the auto level only somewhat compensates for irregularities in the bed. The x(both z switches) must be as level as possible
     
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  11. WheresWaldo

    WheresWaldo Volunteer ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
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    Tilt in the X Axis Carriages (left to right tilt) = Tilt in the bed, as far as the printer is concerned. Follow @Geof's recommendation and try to get them as level as possible.
     
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  12. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    The X is the worst culprit for messing things up. That one really needs to be close to level or the entire leveling process is garbage.
     
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  13. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    Is it normal to have the X-Axis tilt go from 0 degrees (exactly level) to 1.5+ degrees over the course of a print? Cause it's happening to me literally every print (and I'm watching the offset grow larger and larger as it prints a part). It's making anything taller than about 2" or so basically unprintable.

    I have to manually level the X-Axis after EVERY SINGLE PRINT, this cannot POSSIBLY be normal. The error is occurring WHILE the print is in progress, not due to external forces after. Not only that, but the issue seems to be getting worse and worse with each consecutive print, even in spite of leveling between builds.

    I have worked with 3 other 3D printers in the past few years, and none of them have ever had ANY issues like this.

    Related media:
    Photos of Z-axis offset post-build: http://imgur.com/a/CKlY5
    Video of weird texture from resulting prints (and a new, loud, grinding noise while printing):
     
  14. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    That sounds like perhaps either the stepper driver going out or the stepper motor itself.

    This would also tend to account for the oddities on the Z if the driver is not sending enough current the steppers will drop steps.
    If the steppers are going bad... same thing. They may not completely fail (or at least not initially). The lean is also possible with the R1+ because the Z motors do not share the same stepper driver like others.

    I would start with the stepper drivers (little daughter-cards mounted on the RAMPS) since they are cheap (if you have to replace them out of warranty) and easy to swap. Under warranty just get Robo to swap the entire RAMPS w/stepper drivers.
     
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  15. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    Wouldn't stepper drivers/motors going out be something you would expect to occur over time? My printer is brand new (literally just got it on 9/17/16). If the parts were defective from the start, wouldn't they have just failed immediately, or worked for a while and then just stopped?
     
  16. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Not always.
    The stepper driver cards are small, cheap electronics bits and while they should last for a long time... they do die.
    Same is true for all of the electronics on the Robo, it is all commodity parts
    You can buy a repair kit with all of the electronics parts -- all of them PLUS an LCD screen for about $35 US on Amazon.

    Stepper likewise can go bad quickly (but shouldn't) and this is all still covered under warranty (and you really SHOULD get in touch with Robo for replacements).
     
  17. cbale2000

    cbale2000 New Member

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    I did contact them on Monday to help troubleshoot these issues, and they did suggest a few adjustments which I followed (tightening belts, pulleys, etc.), but they have seemed to have stopped responding to my followup emails on this subject (and is it just me, or does their "24/7" support seem to not answer the phone after 5pm EST? Their "press 1 to hold" option just loops you back to the main menu when I've called).
     
  18. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    If they arnt getting back to you submit another ticket. I have not tried to call but you can schedule an appointment with then. I always did that. i imagine like most places its a very small staff on 2nd or 3rd shift. Keep after them, they were always very good with warranty.
     
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  19. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I had some issues in the beginning too. 24/7 support is wrong. Period. False.
    I have had good luck with email. Just have to be patient and accept that it will take days for email back and forth.
    I eventually took my Robo down to San Diego myself (made an appointment) and they worked with me to resolve the issues under warranty. Good people, very small shop, very helpful.
    Just realize you have to be patient, and 24/7 doesn't exist.
     

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