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Brittle Filament?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Rigmarol, Sep 5, 2016.

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  1. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I've gone through about 6 spools of filament over the past 5-6 months. I've noticed on the first sample roll and now at the very end of some Hatchbox Black the filament is as brittle as uncooked spaghetti noodles.

    Could this be attributed to the moisture issue I keep reading about? Or can it be just at the end of the spool the filament is just wound tighter and goes through a little more stress straightening out?

    What do you guys think?
     
    #1 Rigmarol, Sep 5, 2016
  2. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    Yes, that is wet filament.
     
    #2 mark tomlinson, Sep 5, 2016
  3. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    You can dry it. I've seen some use a food dehydrator. I'm sure there are other methods. Haven't gone through it yet
     
    #3 danzca6, Sep 5, 2016
  4. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I was hoping not to have to deal with thI wonder if un spooling smaller batches at issue living in Southern California. It's been very hot here and of course I've been running the A/C all day and the printer is in the family room with us. A/C not swamp cooler.

    I wonder if unspooling a smaller amount for a few jobs at a time and sealing the rest in air tight container and desiccant would be a better practice?
     
    #4 Rigmarol, Sep 5, 2016
  5. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    #5 danzca6, Sep 5, 2016
  6. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    Dehumidifier in your print room is always a welcome item. I have my ac cold and the dehumidifier running all the time in my little print room. When I'm not using the spool it goes back in the box with the desiccant it came with.
     
    #6 Geof, Sep 5, 2016
  7. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    That is a lot of effort in my opinion I could do without.

    I like my idea of spooling off enough for a few print jobs then sealing up the roll for later. I can use zip lock bags at first if that doesn't work I have a vacuum sealer but the bag material is a bit more expensive than zip locks.

    Thingiverse has many designs for small spools now I'm thinking I know why.
     
    #7 Rigmarol, Sep 5, 2016
  8. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Just hate to see you guess on length for a job and be short or having to deal with the lengths of leftovers that get wasted.

    Small spools are normally to hold sample filaments. Could work in your case as well though.
     
    #8 danzca6, Sep 6, 2016
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  9. mark tomlinson

    mark tomlinson ༼ つ ◕_ ◕ ༽つ
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    I used to take a lot of precautions and now I just print wet.
    I get the rare break when printing, but it is not common. As long as the feed is nice and easy it will still print well.

    The only filaments I protect now are the ones severely affected by water -- mostly nylons.
    I keep them sealed with desiccant.
     
    #9 mark tomlinson, Sep 6, 2016
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  10. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I'm also thinking of changing from the spool holder it came with to a top mount so there are no bends. I printed one type but it was too short, i wasn't paying attention and should have checked the length.

    Thanks again for the info.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
     
    #10 Rigmarol, Sep 6, 2016
  11. danzca6

    danzca6 Well-Known Member

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    Top mount is great for a good straight path like you mentioned. Just always want to caution folks making that switch to be careful not to drop the spool on the glass bed. It makes for a bad day real quick.

    This is the mount I use in case you are still looking for ideas. It's worked well.

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:267039
     
    #11 danzca6, Sep 6, 2016
  12. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, thats the exact one i downloaded yesterday yo try out.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
     
    #12 Rigmarol, Sep 6, 2016
  13. fredm

    fredm Member

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    may I ask how you are sealing the filament?
    I bought some of those resealable vacuum storage bags (for clothes and such) . but they never seem to keep a seal.

    I just got ride of a food vacuum sealer I wasn't using. I hope that isnt the best method.
     
    #13 fredm, Sep 30, 2016
  14. Geof

    Geof Volunteer Moderator
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    very large zip lock baggies and bags of desiccant
     
    #14 Geof, Sep 30, 2016
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  15. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I am using the large zip lock bags (2 gallon?) with the original desicant bag they come with and I use a large bore straw (not the small ones you get at fast food) and suck out all the air I can.

    I've only sealed 2 partial rolls that way so far so time will tell.
     
    #15 Rigmarol, Sep 30, 2016
  16. Chuck Erwin

    Chuck Erwin Active Member

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    I live in South Carolina so I got a lot of humidity also and that's what I am doing, zip lock bags with desiccant. But I also bought the wall
    mount type spoolers and cover them with a bag and add desiccant and rice.
    I store my filament in a cabinet.
    20161001_095910.jpg
    But I notice that even when you buy filament it can be brittle at the ends no matter what.
     
    #16 Chuck Erwin, Oct 1, 2016
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  17. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    I've had two rolls now that were brittle the last few yards.
    I'm hoping to solve that a bit by sealing them up now.
     
    #17 Rigmarol, Oct 1, 2016
  18. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    Hey guys, just to weigh in here with a few points on moisture and what is going on because sometimes it is helpful to know why things are happening as opposed to just knowing what works.

    PLA is indeed affected by moisture via hydrolysis, which makes your filament more brittle. This is a long haul process over many months, and not an overnight thing. The chains of the polymer are broken up, so it's irreversible; you can't bake it out. You can bake off surface moisture, but that's a different thing and not usually a major concern with PLA. Because of this, I typically store my filament like @mark tomlinson described. Nylon, polycarb, PVA, ABS, ASA are different. They bubble when wet so they go in dry bags in dry boxes. Everything else just gets left out.

    The other thing that happens is heat set / residual stress. PLA has a lot of memory. So, when you bend it to a relatively small radius and leave it there for a bit, then try to unbend it, it's already got a fair amount of stress built into the filament and it snaps easily. If you use the holes in your spool for filament storage and have left a spool sitting like that for a while, or even sometimes straight out of the bag, you've seen this. If you have a bowden printer, you've probably even seen this on the long section of tractor marks from the filament feed. This speaks to @Chuck Erwin 's comment about being brittle at the end no matter what. The good news here is that you can bake this stress out by heating the filament up above Tg and allowing the chains of the polymer to slide back into a more relaxed position, which is what people are actually doing when they are 'baking out moisture.'
     
    #18 Printed Solid, Oct 2, 2016
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  19. Rigmarol

    Rigmarol Well-Known Member

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    Can never have too much information! Thanks.
     
    #19 Rigmarol, Oct 2, 2016
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  20. Printed Solid

    Printed Solid Volunteer Admin
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    Thanks. It's borderline irrelevant since the method of fixing is the same either way, but I'm always of the opinion that knowing why things are happening is useful.
     
    #20 Printed Solid, Oct 2, 2016
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